tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post113154703999196081..comments2024-02-28T14:41:47.313-07:00Comments on Flares into Darkness: Captain Ed Weighs In On M Wordambisinistralhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03836786826294202405noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131570680719574242005-11-09T14:11:00.000-07:002005-11-09T14:11:00.000-07:00See the latest post at Roger l Simon'sSee the latest post at <BR/><A HREF="http://www.rogerlsimon.com/mt-archives/2005/11/france_again.php#comments" REL="nofollow">Roger l Simon's</A>truepeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131570071512621462005-11-09T14:01:00.000-07:002005-11-09T14:01:00.000-07:00"resentment begins in delusion"-no, I didn't word ..."resentment begins in delusion"<BR/><BR/>-no, I didn't word that right. Resentment most always has a component of both truth and delusion. One cannot reflect seriously on resentment when one is feeling resentful; one has to snap out of it first (which makes it different from other feelings, like pity or love), and learn to analyze the human condition calmly. It's because resentment blocks reflection and because it is thus not clear to us how it came into our world - and so we mentally overvalue our vision of the true injustice, the "true root cause" of our resentment - that it comes packed with delusion.truepeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131569473555234212005-11-09T13:51:00.000-07:002005-11-09T13:51:00.000-07:00Jamie, yes, sure they are barbarians. But let's no...Jamie, yes, sure they are barbarians. But let's not forget that even barbarian armies don't march on their stomachs alone. There has to be some justificaiton for these punks acting out their resentment. And from what I've seen of interviews, they do have talking points ready - usually that no one will hire us, racism, and we have no hope. Since there's no doubt a fair amount of truth in this, be sure that sooner or later they will be looking for deeper, more conspiratorial, "root" causes.<BR/><BR/>The thing about the Islamism debate is that we need to recognize that you don't need much of the poison to ruin your life, especially when you're young. Of course most of these kids are not serious Islamists, but that's not to say Islamism isn't key to what has sparked the riots.<BR/><BR/>The sophistication of one's resentment is not a guide to its immediate virulence. The more seriously we take our resentment, the less violent we will be, for a time - think the Marxist revolutionary who spends a lot of time talking up a storm in the cafes before he finally, if ever, finds the guts and opportunity for full-fledged revolt.<BR/><BR/>A full-fledged Islamism will be in some ways more disciplined and focussed than a bunch of kids who have only a passing knowledge of the idea. The serious Islamist may join a terrorist cell and plot long-term. A bunch of rioting kids are more likely to have but a thin veneer of ideology to justify their yet largely inarticulate resentment. Resentment begins in delusion; it is not rational and need not be highly rationalized to first let go.truepeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131566776419939812005-11-09T13:06:00.000-07:002005-11-09T13:06:00.000-07:00Knuck,I believe it rained last night. If the weath...Knuck,<BR/><BR/>I believe it rained last night. If the weather improves the yute might be more enthusiastic.chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15164145672293455823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131554961684008662005-11-09T09:49:00.000-07:002005-11-09T09:49:00.000-07:00JamieI lean a bit toward the Islamists being invol...Jamie<BR/><BR/><I>I lean a bit toward the Islamists being involved, and Islam itself being a large part of the "background" of this problem</I><BR/><BR/>What ambi (I think) and I are saying is that one can have the second, without necessarily the first. Islam's values, beliefs, and precepts are a part of the culture and in and of themselves demonstrate an intolerance of the 'other' and a desire to remain separate. This does not necessarily mean the culture itself advocates violence but that it rejects the values of the 'host'. And that this rejection probably would not have happened if this culture had been more integrated instead of having been kept separate by multiculturalism.Sylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03069871911665125873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131554651642104092005-11-09T09:44:00.000-07:002005-11-09T09:44:00.000-07:00Jaime,islam itself being a large part of the "back...Jaime,<BR/><BR/><I>islam itself being a large part of the "background" of this problem,</I><BR/><BR/>Someone posting elsewhere related that for one thing, Islam forbid interest bearing loans. The (second hand) source employed two men of north african descent who still lived in government housing because they would not take out loans to buy private homes.<BR/><BR/>I think the French media, government, and intelligentsia also has an "Islamist" slant on events in Israel and Iraq. This is part of the Islamist background and probably still the main source.<BR/><BR/>David,<BR/><BR/><I>France is being destroyed</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think this is anywhere near true. I don't even think there are that many rioters. Else the destruction would be far more severe.chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15164145672293455823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131554471637817432005-11-09T09:41:00.000-07:002005-11-09T09:41:00.000-07:00David,I think the who (or who's) of who is behind ...David,<BR/><BR/>I think the who (or who's) of who is behind the violence matters in the sense that understanding the problem may help us to avert its outbreak elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>JamieJamie Ironshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08483791884102487505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131552125354073072005-11-09T09:02:00.000-07:002005-11-09T09:02:00.000-07:00A clarification:When I say "I am agnostic on the q...A clarification:<BR/><BR/>When I say "I am agnostic on the question of whether Islamists were involved in any way, at least in any major way," I mean I leave the question open. I lean a bit toward the Islamists being involved, and Islam itself being a large part of the "background" of this problem, because I believe the mainstream media's reluctance to use the words "Islam" and "Muslim" in their accounts of what is happening in France amount to what the con man calls a "tell," that is, an indication of what they really think.Jamie Ironshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08483791884102487505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131551892323384972005-11-09T08:58:00.000-07:002005-11-09T08:58:00.000-07:00syl,You wrote:And I, for one, don't think any Isla...syl,<BR/><BR/>You wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>And I, for one, don't think any Islamists were behind this at all...</I><BR/><BR/>I am agnostic on the question of whether Islamists were involved in any way, at least in any major way.<BR/><BR/>In previous posts I have argued for labeling the rioters and whatever supporters they may have <I>barbarians</I>.<BR/><BR/>I am quite serious in making this suggestion. "Barbarians" has the advantages of being accurate, inclusive, and inoffensive to any aggrieved ethnic or religious group. There can be all kinds of barbarians. If it turns out they are Islamist as well, then the discussion can be further focused.<BR/><BR/>I too like ambi's notion of the "indigestible" culture. (Of course, any culture so labeled will take offense at that term, and a horde of grievance mongers will descend on anyone using that label!)Jamie Ironshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08483791884102487505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131550859560570612005-11-09T08:40:00.000-07:002005-11-09T08:40:00.000-07:00ambiI believe the idea of an undigestible culture ...ambi<BR/><BR/><I>I believe the idea of an undigestible culture is a profound shock to the multiculturalists. A single aggressive culure that will not compromise brings down their house of cards.</I><BR/><BR/>In a nutshell. Well said. It doesn't even take Islamic extremists in their midst to cause this. In fact, if it was, indeed, totally spontaneous and not due to extremists egging them on, the point is even more powerful.<BR/><BR/>And I, for one, don't think any Islamists were behind this at all.Sylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03069871911665125873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1131550329476584912005-11-09T08:32:00.000-07:002005-11-09T08:32:00.000-07:00The narrative that drug dealers have spread carefu...The narrative that drug dealers have spread carefully calibrated riots through out the entirety of France, and now across the borders into Belgium, Germany and Portugal, seems more than a little far-fetched to me.<BR/><BR/>The French government's hesitation to mention the Moslem dimension of these riots is understandable as an effort to keep the situation from getting more inflamed. However, the complete failure of the press, particularily the media outside of France, to bring that point up for consideration cannot be excused.<BR/><BR/>I believe the idea of an undigestible culture is a profound shock to the multiculturalists. A single aggressive culure that will not compromise brings down their house of cards. They are facing that possibility, and hoping they can will what they fear away.ambisinistralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03836786826294202405noreply@blogger.com