tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post114748722849848745..comments2024-03-26T16:03:42.608-06:00Comments on Flares into Darkness: Convert or Die IIambisinistralhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03836786826294202405noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1147674501007744692006-05-15T00:28:00.000-06:002006-05-15T00:28:00.000-06:00I don't know how we are going to speak to the Musl...I don't know how we are going to speak to the Muslim masses; but it is not strictly true that we have no conversation with them - they watch Hollywood movies and, increasingly, satellite tv channels, not that this is enough to be happy about. Certainly we need to expand this conversation and the hope that can motivate us is the same behind our faith in freedom: over the long run, human history clearly moves in the direction of greater freedom and this is a universal - and not only, as may be most obvious, western - truth. When human language first emerged there was, presumably, only one word, one degree of freedom in the first cultural system. And for thousands of years, people were ruled according to the dictates of a uniquely correct ritual system, as to some degree Muslims still are (though not to the same limited degree as their more primitive pagan forebears). And since the first word, everywhere there has evolved many times more degrees of freedom in all surviving cultures. <BR/><BR/>What motivates any of us to increase the degrees of freedom in our system is a pressing realization of the necessity for freedom - fear and hope - a realization that comes from properly grasping that if the system cannot expand its freedom, the alternative will be death and destruction at the hands of our fellows. People don't always make the right choice, especially when they believe martyrdom will be rewarded in the next life, but in the long run they do, or they die out. It's not beyond hope that today's Muslims can re-learn this truth as can anyone else, though it will take a lot of courage and help from outside to stand up to those who lead them, those who will often choose death and destruction because of their attachment to a resentful faith. <BR/><BR/>Not everyone willingly goes down with a sinking ship. The instinct for self-preservation, the love for one's children, mitigates against it, even amidst the cruellest faith.truepeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1147662814442976492006-05-14T21:13:00.000-06:002006-05-14T21:13:00.000-06:00But there's the nub.."It must change itself or fig...But there's the nub..<BR/><BR/>"It must change itself or fight the world for its survival"<BR/><BR/>At this point in time where and/or what are the incentive's for that change. We have nothing to offer them that they wish to have. Speaking, naturally, of the religious, government and military leaders. <BR/><BR/>Those above who are against our culture appear to be succeeding in their offensive. Not in large or dramatic ways (with exceptions), as yet, but in the slow but sure insidiousness of water wearing on stone.<BR/><BR/>But in a broader sense I'm not speaking of the nihilists, or the leaders. I'm speaking of the broad majority of Muslim's who attempt to do nothing more than live by their beliefs. The basic problem, as I see it, is that those beliefs are, for the most part, incompatible with the freedoms we enjoy. If we cannot reach and communicate with those masses, which at present we can not, the future appears rather bleak. <BR/><BR/>"Whether western culture is part of a continuum that survives the specific societies that are its temporary hosts"<BR/><BR/>Excellent question. An observable answer may be far in the future. Talking out of my butt here, but does it require a sort of hive mind or gestalt, if you will, to reach the critical mass necessary for freedom to flourish? A large number of other conditions are required, of course, which would include people being able to openly discuss differences in ways of living and viewing the world, without being labeled an apostate and put to death.Lutherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08901441364329385474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1147636061920259612006-05-14T13:47:00.000-06:002006-05-14T13:47:00.000-06:00Luther, the solution as I see it is that Islam, wh...Luther, the solution as I see it is that Islam, whatever it might be in some full and presently unrealized sense, is not acceptable in its present, most common, forms. It must change itself or fight the world for its survival. If the latter, i think, in the long run, it will lose. But yes, we are a long way yet from being prepared for that fight, so maybe politicians like BUsh have no choice but to mouth wishful thinking.<BR/><BR/>As for western culture, I too have doubts about its future, when I see how nihilistic so many young poeple are (and having had personal experience along these lines). But I have snapped out of it to some degree, not everyone is going childless, and so maybe there is a revival of conservative, family values coming - of course it already exists in some families. Whether western culture is part of a continuum that survives the specific societies that are its temporary hosts, is a question I am grappling with and I think it is just that to some degree. But will western culture survive in countries that are no longer predominantly white - as North AMerica will soon be unless there is a radical shift in immigration policy? I think the culture will survive in some sense. And yet, it will be a different kind of culture among people who don't have a sense of a family or racial connection to the places of origin of western culture. Even if Christianity prospers, Christianity is far from being the only force in western culture to which people must feel some connection to fully embrace the several different components of western cultural history.<BR/><BR/>In any case, the success of western culture remains in significant degree unrivalled. The East Asians realize they have to adopt certain western values in order to prosper in the economic order. So, I see western and eastern cultures growing together and changing both in ways we cannot yet foresee.truepeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1147619488885493942006-05-14T09:11:00.000-06:002006-05-14T09:11:00.000-06:00TPI know you are not holding your breath. Good thi...TP<BR/><BR/>I know you are not holding your breath. Good thing.<BR/><BR/>I admit to being generally depressed about the state of the world at the present time.<BR/><BR/>It seems almost inevitable that Western Civ and culture will no longer continue as the instigator and guarantor of individual freedom and rights. Our very success has led to the forces that will see to our expiry.<BR/><BR/>It will be our inclusiveness, as stated by GWB in your excerpt, that will be our downfall.<BR/><BR/>I do not see myself as a racist nor bigot. And, even as a non-believer, I understand that this country was, from its very beginnings, founded on the precepts of religious freedom. I have put my life on the line to defend that precept, and would do so again if called.<BR/><BR/>But yet... and here is the conundrum for me. I do not see how we can allow the Islamic religion to influence, in any way, shape or form, the way this country goes about its business. And, understand, I am not speaking of individuals. I am speaking of ideals and beliefs.<BR/><BR/>The dichotomy, in this particular instance, between "freedom and religion" would appear to be insurmountable.<BR/><BR/>I can offer no generally acceptable solutions.Lutherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08901441364329385474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1147570188051325672006-05-13T19:29:00.000-06:002006-05-13T19:29:00.000-06:00why the tenacious belief in an obvious falsehood-b...<I>why the tenacious belief in an obvious falsehood</I><BR/><BR/>-because some people cannot face the future without such.<BR/><BR/>here is another interesting <A HREF="http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/011361.php" REL="nofollow">post</A> from Jihad Watch. It begins by quoting from a news report:<BR/><BR/>"BERLIN (AFP) - US President George W. Bush said in an interview with a German newspaper that he unwittingly caused fears in the Muslim world. <BR/><BR/>""We must understand words mean things to different people," Bush said in Bild, according to an English transcript released by the White House....<BR/><BR/>""There needs to be more understanding between the Muslim world and the Western world. There needs to be a better understanding of the true beliefs of their respective religions."...<BR/><BR/>""I take great comfort in knowing that the true Muslim -- Islam, itself, is a peaceful religion, and those who adhere to Islam are people that respect the rights of others.<BR/><BR/>""And there's common values in the great religions. And what we cannot allow to happen is for these totalitarians, these Islamic extremists to distort a great religion and define the nature of that religion.""<BR/><BR/>I see nothing wrong with SPencer's reply:<BR/><BR/>"We cannot allow it? It's already happening, Mr. President. Whether or not it's actually a distortion of Islam, it's undoubtedly a very widespread view of the religion. It's too late to refuse to allow this to happen.<BR/><BR/>It would be refreshing if someone somewhere would come up with some evidence for the oft-repeated assertions that Bush here repeats yet again. I have asked here many times, to no avail. But I'll try again: one more time I am asking for anyone of good will to show me. Send me examples of Islamic religious scholars rejecting, on Islamic grounds, jihad violence against non-Muslims; rejecting the idea that Sharia law should be instituted in the Muslim and non-Muslim world; and teaching the idea that non-Muslims and Muslims should live together indefinitely as equals. Send me rejections of the ideas that women should not enjoy full equality of rights with men. Send me information that shows that those who write such rejections are not lone voices crying in the wilderness, with the wolves of Islamic orthodoxy ready to pounce upon them, but that they represent broad traditions within Islam and have large followings."truepeershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16401984575637492845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1147567231409534042006-05-13T18:40:00.000-06:002006-05-13T18:40:00.000-06:00Hypothesis (Marx): Crime (and by extension violenc...Hypothesis (Marx): Crime (and by extension violence) is caused by poverty.<BR/><BR/>Fact: There is lots of crime in rich areas committed by rich people. If one traces the location of terrorist attack, one sees a very clear geo-spatial pattern laid out clearly somewhere on Gates of Vienna: it encircles the Muslim world on every side. The poorest countries in Central America and Africa are sometimes the safest (and sometimes not). Crime is rather uncorrelated with poverty.<BR/><BR/>If we can agree that this hypothesis has been tested and is wrong, we can then ask: why the tenacious belief in an obvious falsehood?<BR/><BR/>When I perceive people believing adamantly in something that apparently isn't there, I am ineluctably drawn to the conclusion that religion is involved. Moreover, where there is religion, there is need for that belief. So, why do people need this belief?<BR/><BR/>I presume that it is because it is ultimately comforting. The history of the latter Twentieth Century shows the most remarkable and encouraging fact: poverty can be alleviated across vast swaths of the Earth, perhaps the whole thing. Can, and <B>is being</B> alleviated. Poverty is a solvable problem.<BR/><BR/>Unlike terrorism.MeaninglessHotAirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767916621253839341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1147566835069878532006-05-13T18:33:00.000-06:002006-05-13T18:33:00.000-06:00Terrye,Yes, the unabomber was crazy and dangerous....Terrye,<BR/><BR/>Yes, the unabomber was crazy and dangerous. Had there been several cells of unabombers scattered across the land I would have been really worried. I mean, just think, <I>hundreds</I> of those guys!<BR/><BR/>By contrast, here we have over a billion crazy people who potentially hear a voice we can't hear telling them to kill us.<BR/><BR/>Let's try to keep a little perspective.MeaninglessHotAirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767916621253839341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1147543239718462172006-05-13T12:00:00.001-06:002006-05-13T12:00:00.001-06:00Or is it unabomber?Or is it unabomber?terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609746018265953069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1147543201278642462006-05-13T12:00:00.000-06:002006-05-13T12:00:00.000-06:00Don't forget the unibomber.I think that this young...Don't forget the unibomber.<BR/><BR/>I think that this young man is just crazy.terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609746018265953069noreply@blogger.com