tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post115439024225117542..comments2024-03-26T16:03:42.608-06:00Comments on Flares into Darkness: The Good Old Daysambisinistralhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03836786826294202405noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154474337608879622006-08-01T17:18:00.000-06:002006-08-01T17:18:00.000-06:00By the way, sorry to have taken this discussion of...By the way, sorry to have taken this discussion off on such a tangent. I respect your opinion, and the opinions of the other bloggers here, so I wanted to see what you guys thought about Waco. I've always been perplexed by the whole Waco uproar.Pastoriushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169561459129778670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154474237694460762006-08-01T17:17:00.000-06:002006-08-01T17:17:00.000-06:00Terrye,Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. When I w...Terrye,<BR/><BR/>Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. When I wrote that the incident at Waco was used to make the case that America had become a kind of totalitarian state, I was referring to the rhetoric of 90's era right wing Republicans.Pastoriushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169561459129778670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154462614501312112006-08-01T14:03:00.000-06:002006-08-01T14:03:00.000-06:00pastorius:I never said that America is a totalitar...pastorius:<BR/><BR/>I never said that America is a totalitarian state. That is ridiculous. My point is that people make a bigger deal out of what happened in Qana than they did about what happened in Waco. They assume that the Israelis are culpable, but the Clinton administration was not. At the time I supported going in there at Waco, but it was a dumbass move. They handled it badly.terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609746018265953069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154444625588083382006-08-01T09:03:00.000-06:002006-08-01T09:03:00.000-06:00Terrye, "They should have arrested him on one of h...Terrye, <BR/>"They should have arrested him on one of his many trips to Wal-Mart."<BR/><BR/>Yes, I agree, they should have. They screwed up, didn't they? <BR/><BR/>But, is that reason to go around saying the government has turned into a totalitarian police state.<BR/><BR/>The right was almost as unhinged on this case as the left has been on the war.<BR/><BR/>I was sick to my stomach in almost the same way back in those days.<BR/><BR/>I will never forget hearing the Clinton Chronicles advertised and discussed on the Rush Limbaugh Show.<BR/><BR/>America has to get over this insane schism-making in its politics. I understand that it is hard not to be that way. Currently, we have a left that wants to portray America as a rogue nation, engaged in a war which it is imagining. How are we supposed to meet up with such a viewpoint? <BR/><BR/>I don't know.<BR/><BR/>But, I do have to wonder if the left would go so unhinged if the right didn't participate in the politics of insanity. I have to wonder if the right made their bed, and is now being required to sleep in it.<BR/><BR/>Oh yes, and I am old enough to know that it goes further back than the Clinton era. I remember the Iran/Contra Scandal. I remember Watergate. I remember the Viet Nam war. I think it all started back then.<BR/><BR/>No, probably goes back further than that.Pastoriushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169561459129778670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154444276853322282006-08-01T08:57:00.000-06:002006-08-01T08:57:00.000-06:00I am in Syl's camp. I just don't understand the id...I am in Syl's camp. I just don't understand the idea that the government does not have the right to serve an arrest warrant and expect the people in a house to comply.<BR/><BR/>For God's sake, if that were the case then every idiot gangbanger in the world would just have to refuse to answer the frickin' door, and have his "moms" go pick him up McDonald's everyday until the police got bored with the situation and left.<BR/><BR/>What's the other alternative?Pastoriushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169561459129778670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154444108600465432006-08-01T08:55:00.000-06:002006-08-01T08:55:00.000-06:00Seneca The Younger,No, I don't think burning down ...Seneca The Younger,<BR/><BR/>No, I don't think burning down a building and killing people is the way to deal with an arrest warrant. Neither do I think that hole oneself up in ones house is the way to deal with an arrest warrant. Nor is firing on police. Nor is burning one's house down.Pastoriushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169561459129778670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154429115179335812006-08-01T04:45:00.000-06:002006-08-01T04:45:00.000-06:00Syl:I don't think they should have walked away eit...Syl:<BR/><BR/>I don't think they should have walked away either. My point is that even in America when bad people get control of large numbers of civilians, those civilians get caught in the line of fire. And sometimes even in America the numbers can be shocking.terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609746018265953069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154428743796766442006-08-01T04:39:00.000-06:002006-08-01T04:39:00.000-06:00MHA:Ah yes, I forget.Pastorius, I did not dislike ...MHA:<BR/><BR/>Ah yes, I forget.<BR/><BR/>Pastorius, I did not dislike Clinton, I was disapointed in him. Big difference.<BR/><BR/>As for Waco, Reno screwed up. They should have arrested that crazy man on one of his frequent trips to Walmart and left the kids out of it. That was a decade for poor choices when it came to rules of engagement. Please note how no one said that they should not use military force on the Davidians because it would just make more Davidians.terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609746018265953069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154413661107321592006-08-01T00:27:00.000-06:002006-08-01T00:27:00.000-06:00Terrye,Back to the original point, you must keep i...Terrye,<BR/><BR/>Back to the original point, you must keep in mind that anything that occurs without the presence of the Western cameras doesn't really exist.MeaninglessHotAirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767916621253839341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154410899344963362006-07-31T23:41:00.000-06:002006-07-31T23:41:00.000-06:00I don't share the libertarian view of Waco. I thin...I don't share the libertarian view of Waco. I think the whole episode was tragic but neither do I think the Feds should simply have walked away.Sylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03069871911665125873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154399941779216802006-07-31T20:39:00.000-06:002006-07-31T20:39:00.000-06:00grrrrrrrrrreat reporting.grrrrrrrrrreat reporting.Reliapundithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12942299527008194753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154399774049762072006-07-31T20:36:00.000-06:002006-07-31T20:36:00.000-06:00Pastorius,The siege at Waco was a case history of ...Pastorius,<BR/><BR/>The siege at Waco was a case history of governmental over-reaction. Koresh was going to be arrested on a weapons charge, in effect, of owning too many guns. The Feds decided to make a TV spectacular out of the arrest, stormed the Branch Davidian compound with 76 ATF agents that ended in a shootout leaving 4 ATF agents and 6 Branch Davidians dead. He siege escalated and ended in the burning death of over 80 people, mostly women and children. <BR/><BR/>I’m not blaming Clinton for Waco, although Washington Justice quickly took over and gave the orders for the final assault that ended in the fiery death. What disgusted me was Clinton’s response to questions about the siege and its aftermath: “Don’t ask me, ask Janet Reno.” Apparently he was busy with other things, perhaps staining little blue dresses while the siege that mesmerized the country went on for weeks.Moneyrunnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12940253500799383224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154398922860612392006-07-31T20:22:00.000-06:002006-07-31T20:22:00.000-06:00Pastorius, the main point I think is that we don't...Pastorius, the main point I think is that we don't generally figure burning down a building and burning lots of people alive is a desirable way of dealing with an arrest warrant.<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, were you under the impression it <I>was</I> standard practice?Charlie Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14586506407851173416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154395436953261402006-07-31T19:23:00.000-06:002006-07-31T19:23:00.000-06:00pastorius,Not speaking for myself, but the second ...pastorius,<BR/><BR/>Not speaking for myself, but the second admendment libertarians and even some yellow dog Texas Democrats that I know feel that the government was overstepping their bounds, that they had little or no business getting involved, and that once they did they went totally overboard. A case that arouses similar emotions is <A HREF="http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/weaver.shtml" REL="nofollow">Ruby Ridge</A>. Note that Ruby Ridge was in 1992 and set the tone for Waco.chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15164145672293455823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1154392947282134082006-07-31T18:42:00.000-06:002006-07-31T18:42:00.000-06:00Terrye,I've got a question for you, and anyone els...Terrye,<BR/>I've got a question for you, and anyone else here at this blog who might care to give me their opinion.<BR/><BR/>Why is it that people oppose what the American government did at Waco? As I understand it, they were trying to arrest Mr. Koresh, and he decided he would hole himself up in his compound instead of coming along peacefully. From my perspective, he was in violation of the law, and as I understand it, there was some concern about the people who were inside with him. So, it seems to me that while the government may have made mistakes, they were only trying to do their job. It seems to me Koresh was the criminal.<BR/><BR/>Can anyone enlighten me otherwise here?<BR/><BR/>I bring up the question, because I get tired of people bringing up Waco as evidence of Clinton's abusive policies. I actually liked Clinton. I think the hatred of him was almost as irrational as is the hatred of George Bush.Pastoriushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03169561459129778670noreply@blogger.com