tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post115558539599730300..comments2024-03-26T16:03:42.608-06:00Comments on Flares into Darkness: Choicesambisinistralhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03836786826294202405noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155651317507196732006-08-15T08:15:00.000-06:002006-08-15T08:15:00.000-06:00Yeah--the assets. Israel destroyed their financial...Yeah--the assets. Israel destroyed their financial system. Their 'banks' were in six buildings--all gone.<BR/><BR/>But I also heard (CNN, I think) that the Hezzies are going around south Beirut with clipboards asking people to tell them what damage they have that needs repairing and promising to fix everything.<BR/><BR/>LOL, the poor people surely believe them.<BR/><BR/>Let's say the ceasefire holds for now. And money starts pouring in from other countries to help Lebanon rebuild. Gotta make sure none of it gets in the hands of the Hezzies. Fat chance.<BR/><BR/>And I'm sure Iran will pony up plenty directly.<BR/><BR/>The porverty stricken shia depend on the Hezzies. That's how it works.<BR/><BR/>The Saudis do the same thing--doing it now especially in Africa. They pour money in to help people then build madrassas and mosques too.<BR/><BR/>They do it directly--don't go through the corrupt governments and their agencies. Much smarter than we and our NGO's are.Sylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03069871911665125873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155615466997503002006-08-14T22:17:00.000-06:002006-08-14T22:17:00.000-06:00Syl,Yes, I agree.Syl,<BR/><BR/>Yes, I agree.MeaninglessHotAirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767916621253839341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155615278630741602006-08-14T22:14:00.000-06:002006-08-14T22:14:00.000-06:00One could say that the more moderate muslims wish ...One could say that the more moderate muslims wish to avoid death. It is their will that can be broken.<BR/><BR/>But what good is that if the Nasrallah's of the world hold them hostage?<BR/><BR/>And we can't destroy Hezbollah unless we destroy Lebanon. And that should only be plan B.<BR/><BR/>The political is plan A. Help the Lebanese to disarm Hezbollah.<BR/><BR/>I doubt it will work, but it must be tried.Sylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03069871911665125873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155615172928525502006-08-14T22:12:00.000-06:002006-08-14T22:12:00.000-06:00Syl,I believe that America's will was clearly brok...Syl,<BR/><BR/>I believe that America's will was clearly broken in Vietnam.<BR/><BR/>I believe that we are in serious danger now of having our will broken in the Middle East.<BR/><BR/>I did not try to refute you. I disagreed with my understanding of what I thought you were saying.<BR/><BR/><I>When death is something to celebrate rather than avoid, the idea of breaking their will takes on a different, impossible, dimension.</I><BR/><BR/>Impossible for us, maybe. If so, we lose. Very simple.MeaninglessHotAirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767916621253839341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155614764331150702006-08-14T22:06:00.000-06:002006-08-14T22:06:00.000-06:00MHAYou attempted to refute me, then you proved my ...MHA<BR/><BR/>You attempted to refute me, then you proved my point.<BR/><BR/>Nobody's will will be broken in this day and age...the fighting will all be halted before that point.<BR/><BR/>Besides, in the Arab world, their will isn't broken by destruction and devastation. Declaring victory instead of admitting defeat is their only defense mechanism and they've used it for centuries.<BR/><BR/>When death is something to celebrate rather than avoid, the idea of breaking their will takes on a different, impossible, dimension.Sylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03069871911665125873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155614158777056392006-08-14T21:55:00.000-06:002006-08-14T21:55:00.000-06:00Nobody wins or loses wars anymore.It's all politic...<I>Nobody wins or loses wars anymore.<BR/><BR/>It's all political.</I><BR/><BR/>Hmm, sorry, no, I think that's a misunderstanding of the essence of war. War is not about killing your enemy. It is about willpower. It is about breaking the will of your enemy. Sherman understood this well. War is a battle of wills.<BR/><BR/>I believe that, by fetishizing World War II, for that is exactly what has happened during our lifetimes, those of us who were born after that event have come to completely misunderstand the nature of war. In our mythology, there were clear good and bad guys in that war and when there was never any doubt that the bad guys would lose, and when their armies were physically destroyed, the war was over.<BR/><BR/>All three of these assertions are wrong to some degree or other.<BR/><BR/>And if war is about the breaking of wills, then it should be understood that the essence of war is entirely political, and it should further be understood that all wars since Vietnam will be fought under the glare of the cameras from the Western news agencies, so all wars will be fought first and foremost in the press.<BR/><BR/>If the enemy press can be turned, as the New York Times has been turned, one is well on one's way to winning.MeaninglessHotAirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11767916621253839341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155609386044127122006-08-14T20:36:00.000-06:002006-08-14T20:36:00.000-06:00Chuck,"Forty-three states have statutes defining m...Chuck,<BR/><BR/>"Forty-three states have statutes defining marriage to two persons of the opposite-sex." From <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_the_United_States#Constitutional_Amendments" REL="nofollow">Wikipedia</A>. I haven't come accross a single competitive House race where contrast on social issues are a major consideration. 'Course the actual campaign doesn't start for a couple of weeks.Rick Ballardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082425215912372067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155608428395400912006-08-14T20:20:00.000-06:002006-08-14T20:20:00.000-06:00UN Peacekeeping Farce to begin deployment within 2...<A HREF="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/750448.html" REL="nofollow">UN Peacekeeping Farce</A> to begin deployment within 24-48 hours. Quick work.Rick Ballardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082425215912372067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155608213243316672006-08-14T20:16:00.000-06:002006-08-14T20:16:00.000-06:00But if Americans hear one more word about the marr...<I>But if Americans hear one more word about the marriage amendment...</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe on the federal level. But I read that, what, 40+ states have now written the male/female definition of marriage into their constitutions? Unbelievable. I would sure like to see some confirmation of this because I haven't heard much reportage about it. If true, I can't think of anything else that has swept through the country like that in recent times.chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15164145672293455823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155606548653869652006-08-14T19:49:00.000-06:002006-08-14T19:49:00.000-06:00You may be right Syl. Though I rue the day. I like...You may be right Syl. Though I rue the day. I like A. Jackson. He got things done. His wife had good taste in wallpaper. Still shining at the Hermitage, 146 years later. If you ever visit Nashville go see it.Lutherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08901441364329385474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155605181165760122006-08-14T19:26:00.000-06:002006-08-14T19:26:00.000-06:00The Jacksonian days are over, folks. We have to fa...The Jacksonian days are over, folks. We have to face it.<BR/><BR/>Nobody wins or loses wars anymore.<BR/><BR/>It's all political.<BR/><BR/>I think the Hawks have to cool it a bit--though mocking anti-war types is still acceptable of course.<BR/><BR/>The Reps are going to lose big in November. And it's social issues, not war, that will do it. Americans seem to have accepted that we're at war. We don't have to pound it into their brains anymore. But if Americans hear one more word about the marriage amendment or stem cells or the FCC fines they're going to scream.<BR/><BR/>(And in 2008 if the Reps put up another social conservative they'll lose.)Sylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03069871911665125873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155602579540142622006-08-14T18:42:00.000-06:002006-08-14T18:42:00.000-06:00Unfortunately they are, at heart, left wing univer...<I>Unfortunately they are, at heart, left wing universalists who think all peoples are the same.</I><BR/><BR/>Just like Thomas Jefferson and Voltaire and Ben Franklin and Tom Paine.Charlie Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14586506407851173416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155600381529717242006-08-14T18:06:00.000-06:002006-08-14T18:06:00.000-06:00Terrye,If you consider the last five years in term...Terrye,<BR/><BR/>If you consider the last five years in terms of relative "peace" in Israel the period that sticks out is immediately after the fall of Baghdad (and cessation of Saddam's splodeydope checks) coupled with the targeted killing of Hamas leadership. The Israelis took two good shots at Nasrallah and if either had been successful then the "war" outcome would look completely different.<BR/><BR/>I hope that they do continue to try and kill him and that they are successful but they may have burned their humint resources (if they weren't doubled) already. <BR/><BR/>What I would hate to see now is Olmert asserting a claim that it was the US administration that forced the ceasefire. It would be a lie but he <I>is</I> a pol with his neck on the block. Israel could have had troops on the Litani two weeks ago.Rick Ballardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082425215912372067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155600015629150632006-08-14T18:00:00.000-06:002006-08-14T18:00:00.000-06:00Sorry Rick, I saw this;"I'm sure that a majority o...Sorry Rick, I saw this;<BR/><BR/>"I'm sure that a majority of Israeli's don't oppose the cease fire"<BR/><BR/>which led me to link Yoni. And yes, this is a leadership issue. I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall at the cabinet meeting approving the cease fire. How much autonomy do the member's have? As well, the results of that poll tell me that Olmert has not been successful at communicating his reasons for the cease fire to the general populace. Or, he has, and they disagree with his reasoning. Either way it would appear there will be changes in the near future.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Those were the only objectives I remember Chuck. I don't believe either was realized. Even with the agreement the return of the prisoners was not directed, only recommended.<BR/><BR/>OT but <A HREF="http://ace.mu.nu/archives/192447.php" REL="nofollow">Ace</A> has upped the ante. Don't bother Terrye, you won't like it. Not saying I do either, necessarily, but I certainly empathize.Lutherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08901441364329385474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155599829806782722006-08-14T17:57:00.000-06:002006-08-14T17:57:00.000-06:00vnjagvet:Yes, all we can do is wait and see. All w...vnjagvet:<BR/><BR/>Yes, all we can do is wait and see. All will be plain eventually. <BR/><BR/>I wonder if the Isrealis will go after Nasrallah? I bet he wonders too.terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609746018265953069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155599291949452282006-08-14T17:48:00.000-06:002006-08-14T17:48:00.000-06:00While I understand Paul's frustration, I suspect i...While I understand Paul's frustration, I suspect it is as much caused by frustration and disappointment with Israel's strategic and tactical setbacks (or the appearance of them) as by the failure of US policy and diplomacy.<BR/><BR/>In reality, the US must defer to Israel's strategic and tactical decisions, as it is the "client".<BR/><BR/>To let a twit like Nasrullah gloat is tough medicine indeed.<BR/><BR/>But I think the collective wisdom here is the right approach.<BR/><BR/>Let's see what develops.vnjagvethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15904498408683884983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155598302869900112006-08-14T17:31:00.000-06:002006-08-14T17:31:00.000-06:00From July 17Prodi acting as go between for Olmert ...From <A HREF="http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0717/p06s01-wome.html" REL="nofollow">July 17</A><BR/><BR/>Prodi acting as go between for Olmert and Siniora -<BR/><BR/>"Prodi told me that Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert informed him of two demands for a cease-fire - handing over the two captive Israeli soldiers and a Hizbullah pullback to behind the Litani River," a government statement quoted Siniora as telling the cabinet.<BR/><BR/>Of course, that's just the Lebanese understanding of Olmert's objectives. The "real" objectives will only be revealed when Israeli forces are back in Israel and will be based upon extensive polling for plausibility.Rick Ballardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082425215912372067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155598128925692002006-08-14T17:28:00.000-06:002006-08-14T17:28:00.000-06:00chuck:If I remember correctly it was about the sol...chuck:<BR/><BR/>If I remember correctly it was about the soldiers and pushing back Hezbellah far enough to stop missile attacks. At first they said a couple of miles might be enough buffer. Olmert himself never promised to destroy Hezbellah etc, that was something that a lot of other people came up with later. The man making the decisions never made any such promises.terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609746018265953069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155596599714901352006-08-14T17:03:00.000-06:002006-08-14T17:03:00.000-06:00The days of Golda addressing international Sociali...<I>The days of Golda addressing international Socialist conventions are long gone.</I><BR/><BR/>The international left sold out the Iranian left, then the Iraqi left. I remember representatives from Iraq attending an international meeting in Italy after the takedown of Sadaam. No one paid them any attention, everyone was decrying the crimes of the Americans. Pshaw, at least the old left believed in something recognizably progressive, misguided though it was.<BR/><BR/><I>According to the survey, 58 percent of the public believes Israel achieved few if any objectives in the war,...</I><BR/><BR/>What exactly were the objectives, anyway? The only ones I recall were:<BR/><BR/>1) stop the missle attacks,<BR/><BR/>2) the return of the captives.<BR/><BR/>There were various other objectives that surfaced in the course of the conflict: destroying Hizballah's command and control, destroying the border fortifications, etc. But these were just phases. Were there any other objectives set forth at the beginning of the conflict that anyone knows of?chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15164145672293455823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155595382548964082006-08-14T16:43:00.000-06:002006-08-14T16:43:00.000-06:00Luther,That's the same article that I cited. If a ...Luther,<BR/><BR/>That's the same article that I cited. If a majority believe that the IDF wasn't performing well and 66% believe that the agreement reached wasn't good then there is a bit of a quandary. The kicker is the apparent phrasing of the agreement question, "and achieves most of Israel's objections" kills the validity of the response.<BR/><BR/>I don't see a lot of support for keeping the IDF in the field under current leadership. The support for the soldiers remains excellent - this is a leadership issue.Rick Ballardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082425215912372067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155593933534786052006-08-14T16:18:00.000-06:002006-08-14T16:18:00.000-06:00I of course cannot vouch for its validity.At Yoni'...I of course cannot vouch for its validity.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.yonitheblogger.com/2006/08/66_percent_ceasefire_agreement.html" REL="nofollow">At Yoni's</A>Lutherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08901441364329385474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155593344505780472006-08-14T16:09:00.000-06:002006-08-14T16:09:00.000-06:00Chuck,I agree. This is Israel's problem and respon...Chuck,<BR/><BR/>I agree. This is Israel's problem and responsibility. Right now it's Labor not Likud screaming for Olmert's head. Likud will probably wind up screaming louder in a week or so.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure that a majority of Israeli's don't oppose the cease fire.Rick Ballardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11082425215912372067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155592257533115602006-08-14T15:50:00.000-06:002006-08-14T15:50:00.000-06:00lurker:I know what you meanabout Nasrallha but it ...lurker:<BR/><BR/>I know what you meanabout Nasrallha but it is the nature of the beast. Look at Gaza. Look at Baghdad Bob. They could be neck deep in cow manure with a gun to their heads and they would be claiming victory.<BR/><BR/>We need to get past responding to those taunts. It is propaganda, just like the doctored pictures.terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609746018265953069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155591997675846582006-08-14T15:46:00.000-06:002006-08-14T15:46:00.000-06:00Rick,I would take it more seriously if an overwhel...Rick,<BR/><BR/>I would take it more seriously if an overwhelming majority felt the ceasefire was wrong, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Israel is divided and I don't think even Israelis know what they think at this moment, except that their self-image as supermen seems to have gone missing. You go to war with the Israel you have.<BR/><BR/>The next moves in this game are up to Israel, really. Do they want to upgrade the military, modernize it, and make the training more rigorous? Do they continue to rely on citizen soldiers who are probably never going to be as competent as the professionals? Will more left wingers join the defence forces? The left have been avoiding it recently. Can the Israeli left cuts its ties with the European left?<BR/><BR/>We can all sit here and opine as to what the Israelis should have done. But the fact is that they didn't do that. Nor is the fault all Olmert's, he is just representative of a widespread attitude in the country. Israel's problem is a more acute version of the western problem: how to defend yourself when you don't believe in yourself. The left is at the base of this disease and the Israeli left has got a lot of hard thinking to do.chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15164145672293455823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16821859.post-1155591793869992012006-08-14T15:43:00.000-06:002006-08-14T15:43:00.000-06:00Rick:They can always get rid of Olmert if they wan...Rick:<BR/><BR/>They can always get rid of Olmert if they want and start killing Lebanese again. But that is up to them, not us.<BR/><BR/>And btw, if all they wanted was a return of the soldiers then the smart thing to do was a swap. They could wipe out 90% of the population of Lebanon and not get those soldiers back.terryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609746018265953069noreply@blogger.com