Levin and Syria are on the same page, they both want a timetable for surrender, I mean troop withdrawal.
Rangel calls for bringing back the draft. In all the tons of campaign propaganda I got from Democrats in the lead up to the midterms there was no mention of a draft. Makes you wonder.
Last but not least AJ has an interesting post about a story of Iraqis fighting AlQaida:
While the Democrats push for America’s complete surrender to Al Qaeda in Iraq, thankfully the Iraqis themselves are stilling clawing their way to a democratic future. More indications are being seen that Al Qaeda’s brutality against Iraqis is starting to pay off - for the Coalition. Sunni’s are openly standing up against the Al Qaeda outsiders -0 and winning:
A power struggle is taking place in the Sunni triangle, with tribal leaders and coalition forces aligning against a common enemy …
While the world’s attention has been focused on Baghdad’s slide into sectarian warfare, something remarkable has been happening in Ramadi, a city of 400,000 inhabitants that al-Qaeda and its Iraqi allies have controlled since mid-2004 and would like to make the capital of their cherished Islamic caliphate.
A power struggle has erupted: al-Qaeda’s reign of terror is being challenged. Sheikh Sittar and many of his fellow tribal leaders have cast their lot with the once-reviled US military. They are persuading hundreds of their followers to sign up for the previously defunct Iraqi police. American troops are moving into a city that was, until recently, a virtual no-go area. A battle is raging for the allegiance of Ramadi’s battered and terrified citizens and the outcome could have far-reaching consequences.
I made a comment to that post that I will add here. The outlaws of the Wild West ruled the place until ordinary people stood up to them. The same could be true of Iraq.
13 comments:
Knuck,
The problem with Ramadi is that gansterism has always been the preferred method of making a living. Saddam recruited his most vicious thugs there and even he never had 'control' of the area. Encouraging both sides to fight to the last man is probably a good move but the sheiks involved are fighting because al Quaeda was cutting into their profits. The sheiks should prevail but the result is going to be Capone's Chicago - without an Elliot Ness in sight.
I think that is one reason people are thinking more and more along the lines of making work for these people. I am srue they would rather terrorize epople for a living but giving them an alternative might attract enough people to undercut the bad element.
knuck:
I live about an hours drive from a place that that Dillinger used to come all the time. Shoals, little place, the locals thought he was a regular celebrity. I guess along as it was not their deputy sheriff with two young kids he gunned down, they could not be bothered to turn him in.
Ever see the movie Hang em High? That hanging Judge Parker was a real judge and that was Oklahoma when my grandfather was a boy.
The precursor to state and local cooperation with federal agents was a civil war that established federal sovereignty in a rather convincing manner. Regional differences were hammered out by cannon firre.
The Iraqis seem bent on attempting the same solution. Maliki was just in Ankara promising the Turks that he was going to bring the Kurds into line very soon. I would not bet on the continued existence of the current Iraqi government for more than a few months at most.
Terrye,
There is no need to "make work for these people" - thuggery is their work and they're pretty good at it. Seven hundred years of practice should count for something. There is a huge surplus of young males throughout the Islamic world. The trick is to get them to work off the surplus within their own borders. I wouldn't be surprised to see Egypt start some saber rattling toward Israel by this spring. I hope the Israelis get their act together because I doubt that our al Queada dominated Congress is going to be of much help.
Rick:
I don't know what your problem is but not everyone in Iraq is a thug. Their unemployment rate is high and some of them might prefer a job to risking getting killed.
BTW, that fight between the Kurds and the Turks is an old one I doubt very much if the US has been telling the Turks anything a lot different. In fact I know they haven't.
70% of the people in that country want nothing to do with the extremists and right now they are the ones dying and being maimed and their homes destroyed.
"70% of the people in that country want nothing to do with the extremists"
In what country in the world is that not true? The real prey/predator rate is probably much higher than that, perhaps 90/10 rather than 70/30. Of course the ones unwilling to defend themselves are going to suffer the brunt of the depredation - that's the function of prey, isn't it?
My problem with Iraq is the governments refusal to assert a monopoly on the use of force. Maliki (IMO) is as cheap an Arab thug as any in existence. His demand for the release of Sadr's murdering thugs is all the proof I will ever need.
With a bit of luck the Sunni sheiks will wrap up the al Queada bunch in short order and then start hunting Sadrists. That would be a real "jobs program" for them.
Rick:
The actual number of people involved in the violence are not even a fraction of the 30%. But you seem to ready to write them all off, make judgments about the character of all 26 million of them.
That is not fair. Right here in this country there are gangs and drug dealers who get away with murder everyday because people are afraid to step up, afraid to even talk to the police and yet we have not had some crazy dictator and his psycho offspring terrorizing the place for decades.
This whole thing has not been going on for what three years? You know when I was a kid I used to get really uncomfortable looking at pictures of lynch mobs for fear I would see a family resemblance among the grinning goons standing next to the dead man hanging from a tree. I loved my Mother's father, but he had this hatred in him where blacks were concerned that was just completely out of control.
How many years did it take for us to get past that kind of murder and hatred?
BTW, I remember reading a year or so ago that some Kurds crossed over into Turkey and ended up killing some Turkish soldiers, that is a very dicey situation up there and has been for year.
The actual killers probably comprise less than 1% - the other 9% just provide aid and comfort. You endeed your post with "The outlaws of the Wild West ruled the place until ordinary people stood up to them." - in muslim countries the ordinary people never, ever stand up. It's against the rules.
Framing what is happening in Iraq in terms of what might be expected from a people who held freedom to be a higher value than security is an error. There is no evidence available that suggests that non-secular Arabs will fight for anything other than a division of the spoils of conquest or first place in line in their whorehouse of a paradise. The seculars won't fight much at all - that's the little ongoing problem with the Iraqi security forces.
The Kurds kill Turks when they can - they've got a very long way to go to even the score for what the Turks have done to them over the years.
I hope that the Kurds do very well in the civil war - complete autonomy or even a nation of their own. They are the most secular of the groups involved and democracy has a chance to develop there. They also enjoy killing Iranians even more than Turks which could prove to be extremely useful to US interests.
It's sort of funny that the commander of the Iraqi armed forces is a secular Kurd, isn't it? It's almost as if someone had a fallback plan.
knucklehead—
Not that it matters, but weren't you the individual who objected when I (or another of my pseudonyms) compared Al Qaeda to the Manson Family in 2004?
terrye—
Thanks for directing me to The Strata-Sphere. His musings almost always make me laugh. Kaus used to do that for me and I suspect still might if I were willing to listen to/watch him, but, alas, there's only so far I'm willing to go for a smile.
You do look something like I pictured you. I think I subconsciously associated you with someone I met (in Portland) when I was participating on political bulletin boards in the early '90s. In that group, I ended up meeting 6 of the 13 on-line personalities I hung with. I think I have a picture of myself taken back then. Now that I'm a contributor, I might include it small with a movie review vone Saturday night. Maybe.
Best.
rick
in muslim countries the ordinary people never, ever stand up. It's against the rules.
Your underpants are showing. ISTM that when ordinary people do stand up in muslim countries they're assassinated or jailed. Kind of a disincentive doncha think? Turkey is almost democratic and, in fact, there have been several demonstrations by ordinary people against the religious influence in the current government.
Framing what is happening in Iraq in terms of what might be expected from a people who held freedom to be a higher value than security is an error.
When car bombs are going off in schools and marketplaces. When people just doing their work are kidnapped and/or assassinated. At times like those, well, security suddenly seems like a pretty damn good option.
There is no evidence available that suggests that non-secular Arabs will fight for anything other than a division of the spoils of conquest or first place in line in their whorehouse of a paradise.
You're absolutely sure of that? STM that thousands in the Iraqi army are doing their jobs just fine.
And of course, you haven't considered even one tip from an 'ordinary Iraqi' that has led to the killing or capture of any bad guys.
Methinks you have succumbed to the Iraqiphobia that is running rampant in America since the election.
It's Malikiphobia - time will tell. We're not going anywhere and watching the civil war will be interesting.
Turkey is the best damn democracy run by an army that exists in the ME, that's for sure.
knucklehead—
Thanks.
Manson had big dreams—coming in to pick up the pieces after an apocalyptic race war that he caused and all. Sick, murdering bastards all. No doubt about that.
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