What a novel idea!

Wednesday, November 16, 2005
H'okay. A new coalition of Sunni parties in Iraq have set forth their list of priorities. (h/t Rantburg)

Besides reviewing current laws and releasing everyone from prisons the coalition has come up with a novel idea:

[T]hey will work to make the "occupation forces" put forth a timetable for their withdrawal.

No, I'm not complaining about the Sunni parties. They have actually joined the political process to make their voices heard. What happens if/when they don't obtain all their wishes I don't know. But that is for the Iraqi people to work out.

But, how do I say this...I don't think they got the idea of a withdrawal timetable on their own. I know they want us out. I know we're not leaving until the 'job is done' and they are aware of the necessity to change conditions in their country before we can leave. But they could simply have said that. Their other priorities are set in general terms.

But no.

They want a timetable for our withdrawal.

Thank you Reid, Kennedy, Pelosi, and all the rest of the Democrats who are trying to deceive the American people. Thank you for your literally blind opportunism. Thank you for believing that every word you say is heard only by American voters. Thank you for shitting all over the Iraqi people by your attempts to delegitimize this war.

Bush and the Iraqi people, all of them, will work it out. But thank you all you revisionist Democrats for making the job so much more difficult.

22 comments:

terrye said...

Pretty soon we will start seeing Vote Demcorat on yard signs in front of the homes of former Baathists. Zarqawi will bearing a donkey pin.

Pretty soon we might even capture an "inusrgent" who will say, "We were thinking of giving up but our buddies Reid and Kennedy and the rest of their party convinced us that if we just killed a few more Americans the coalition would run away. After all that is what Americans do."

markg8 said...

So what is your definition of "until the job is done" and what is the president's definition of "victory"?

Telling the American people what we're now trying to accomplish now and how we're going to go about doing it would help shore up support for Bush.

Disarming Iraq of WMD is obviously no longer a justification. Saddam is in prison and on trial. He's no longer a problem. We picked an Iraqi advisory commtitee to the CPA and the Iraqi people threatened total insurrection unless they got free elections. They elected a government in January to write their constitution. They wrote and passed that constitution in October. They'll hold another election in December for a permanent government empowered to write and pass laws. The Sunnis had a large turnout in the October election despite Zarqawi's best efforts. As you post above they have a list of political priorities. So the Iraqis have evidently embraced democracy. Check that off the list. According to the DoD there are over 169,000 at least quasi trained Iraqi soldiers, cops, border guards in uniform protecting the new Iraq. Sure they're not as proficient as our guys, and never will be, but they speak the langauge, are seen by locals as having more legitimacy than our troops and have a vested interest in protecting their homes and neighborhoods.

As for the enemy, I've never seen any estimate of insurgents higher than 20,000 of which I've never seen foreign jihadis estimated higher than 10% of that number. Dick Cheney himself said last June he thought the insurgency was in it's last throes.

So I ask again what constitutes victory? What hoops do the Iraqi people have to jump through now to convince Bush his work is done and bring the majority of our troops home or at least to our bases in Kuwait? Why are we still there?

It's time for him to level with the American and Iraqi people and tell us what staying the course means.

Peter UK said...

The Sunnis are in error here,it is probably only the presence of Coalition troops that prevents them being ethnically cleansed.

markg8 said...

Peter they feel that way in Fallujah now. At least the 35,000 or so of the 250,000 that used to live there that have moved back to try to rebuild their lives and their town. They are threatened by not only the Shia but now the their Baathist brothers for living in a occupied town. They've thrown in their lot with the Americans and are totally dependent on us for not only security but everything.

Peter UK said...

"They've thrown in their lot with the Americans and are totally dependent on us for not only security but everything."

These arw the people you want to walk away from? Vietnam Redux.

David Thomson said...

“revisionist Democrats”

“Revisionist Democrats?” You need to go one step further. They now comprise the mainstream. This is why I have no hesitation in describing the Democratic Party as an enemy of Western Civilization. An no, I am not even slightly exaggerating. My comments are calmly and precisely uttered and easily defendable. There is more than enough evidence to support my position. The Democrats, as I have been saying for well over a year, are now under the effective control of Moveon.org and the Daily Kos. Someone like Joseph Lieberman is even fearful of opening his mouth. He is a marginalized figure.

Aren’t the American people increasingly against the Iraqi War? Unfortunately, this is occurring. The majority probably do wish we never invaded Iraq. Nonetheless, the leftist Democrats have made a major mistake and should pay for it in the 2006 elections. The American voters still want us to win in Iraq---and are not paying particular attention at this moment. They have lives to lead and things to do. It’s getting close to Christmas and the other major holidays. The Republican hating MSM are most effective during these slower time periods. This much I’m sure of: at least 55% of Americans are on the side of victory. Those are daunting numbers.

markg8 said...

So david what constitutes victory in Iraq? A majority of Americans now say
invading Iraq was a mistake and by even bigger numbers think Bush's conduct of the war isn't working.

ex-democrat said...

terrye - have you read McCain's piece in today's NY Post? http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/31358.htm

markg8 said...

"These arw the people you want to walk away from?"

I have no particular love for the people of Fallujah. Certainly don't think it's worth American lives and treasure. It's biggest industries before the invasion were smuggling and chop shops. Same afterward until we blew it up. Bunch of gangsters.

Saddam never liked 'em much either. Their Sunni imans were a little too independent for his tastes. They initially were wary of the Americans
because even though they weren't a Baathist town they knew their crime based economy would be threatened if we instituted a real government enforcing real laws. They became viruently anti American when US soldiers shot up a protest and killed a bunch of them in 2003.

David Thomson said...

“So david what constitutes victory in Iraq?”

We are already victorious in Iraq. That goal was accomplished over a year ago. How do I define victory? The enemy has no realistic hope of ever achieving control over the government. At the very most, the terrorists are a major nuisance. They are only able to murder roughly 300 people a week in a country of some 26 million. It is our nation’s duty to help further stabilize the situation. My guess is that most of our troop will be able to leave in less than 5 years.

Oh by the way, aren’t you proud of what we have achieved in Iraq? Are not the citizens better?

“A majority of Americans now say invading Iraq was a mistake and by even bigger numbers think Bush's conduct of the war isn't working.”

Fair enough. Still, you conveniently overlook the fact that around 55% of them want us to win in Iraq. They adamantly reject the defeatist mindset of the Western Civilization hating Left. When push comes to shove, the Democrats will be screaming in horror. Just ask George McGovern.

markg8 said...

So why 5 years if the insurgents have no hope of taking over the government?

Can you imagine our ancestors putting up with the French hanging around after helping us boot out the English to tell us how to run things and hunt down Tory sympathizers? I think not.

Why not declare victory and go home?

It'd shore up his poll numbers, influence in congress and I'm sure you guys would have fun prodding him to use the freed up military resources to scare the bejesus out of Syria or North Korea.

Peter UK said...

have no particular love for the people of Fallujah. Certainly don't think it's worth American lives and treasure. It's biggest industries before the invasion were smuggling and chop shops. Same afterward until we blew it up. Bunch of gangsters."

So "Hearts and Minds" only applies to those you like and those who like you? Another pillar of guerilla warfare down the tubes.

If you can not see that Carter cringing to Iran and Clinton running with his tail between his legs from Somalia lead directly to 9/11,you have missed bin Ladens point.
Betraying Vietnam did not earn America respect,it made half the world very worried and the other half laugh themselves sick.
This was the origin of the thesis of the "Weak Horse",one which has plagued the world for decades,and if the Sunni-Democrat-Ba'athist Alliance gets its way will plague the world for the rest of this century.

Syl said...

Mark

Why not declare victory and go home?

Because Iraq is not Vietnam. Because we've promised the Iraqi people we won't abandon them until they ask us to leave.

Because in the eyes of the international community, keeping our word is important. If we were to pick up and leave it would be a gigantic PR disaster for America, even worse than the invastion in the first place.

Do you want al Qaeda to laugh at us and our international friends to scorn us for our weakness.

I didn't think so.

Peter UK said...

"Why not declare victory and go home?"

Because until the Iraqi Army can protect its country from Iran and Syria that would be stupid.

Secondly,the Democrats would contest that position and would accuse Bush of cutting and running,any ensuing massacres would be used to bolster that point.
They might say that they would never do such a thing,but you know what liars they are.
"WE are for it until we can see an advantage in being against it"

Peter UK said...

Syl
"Do you want al Qaeda to laugh at us and our international friends to scorn us for our weakness.

I didn't think so."

Sorry Syl,but yes he does,these are the people who gave you the enslavement of Vietnam. As long as these they have somewhere to crow they don't care if it is a dunghill.

David Thomson said...

“...and I'm sure you guys would have fun prodding him to use the freed up military resources to scare the bejesus out of Syria or North Korea.”

Are you perhaps hinting that North Korea is not a threat? There’s little doubt that you think our troubles are merely a result of well deserved “blow back.” The so-called imperialistic United States has crapped on other nations, enraging their citizens, and essentially given them the middle finger. If only we had behaved ourselves, Islamic nihilism would have never entered the picture. Moreover, we only get these people angrier with our military exploits. The situation would supposedly improve if only we were more understanding and open to dialogue. Last but not least, you views sadly represent the leadership of Democratic Party.

markg8 said...

No I'd say Kim Jong Il is nuttier than a fruitcake. This is a guy who once dug up the body of a long dead former agricultural minister and had his corpse shot full of holes and reburied.

Having said that Kim has no missiles that can reach the US and if push came to shove we have shipboard anti missile missiles right now that actually work and could shoot down anything he tried to launch at South Korea or Japan.

Any response to him or any other missile bearing goon who doesn't respect the nation destroying power of our nuclear response capability doesn't require deploying the multi billion dollar NMDS boondoggle last year, trying to lock in it's continued funding - in the event Bush had lost the election - for the decades it'll take to get the thing actually ready for primetime. It can't even shoot down test drones when given the trajectory and coordinates so far in the rigged tests they've run and yet it's already deployed in silos in Alaska.
You can't count on it to save Seattle or LA but you can count on it taking a big chunk out of the current Pentagon budget. Get real.

Peter UK said...

"Having said that Kim has no missiles that can reach the US and if push came to shove we have shipboard anti missile missiles right now that actually work and could shoot down anything he tried to launch at South Korea or Japan."

No you don't,that is what is worrying the administration.The ranges from NK to SK are so short that Souel would be gone before targets could be acquired.
This would then precipitate a war on China's borders where NK could use thermo-nuclear weapons and the US could not.
The effect of a war in such an economically important area could plunge the world into a massive recession.
Doubtless Iran would take the opportunity to cause as much mayhem as it could whilst America was engaged elsewhere.
Japan would regard it as essential to arm itself with WMD,further antagonising China,which itself might sieze the chance to invade Taiwan.Since Taiwanese security is underwritten by the US,this would inevitably bring China and the US into conflict.
Nice going!

markg8 said...

Petey you don't what you're talking about. Now go play quietly while the adults discuss this.

terrye said...

mark:


Don't be dense. We have been in this thing with NK for more than half a century, if it was that damn simple I doubt if that would be the case.

As for Iraq, I think it would be irresponsible and self defeating to run away.

And you know what? For years I have been listening to lefties whine and bitch and moan about the US not standing up to fascists, we do and they can't jump ship fast enough.

I can remember the same people saying that if we left Viet Nam the killing would stop.

wrong.

More people died after we left and so far as I know not one prominent leftist has ever even acknowledged the fact that they were full of shit.

And now they are hoping for the same end in Iraq.

If they had been around during WW2 they would have been making secret trips to Germany and Japan to offer up our surrender.

Since the fall of Saddam's nasty little regime there has been a constitution written in Iraq and the Iraqis are taking more and more control over their country.

They have a better economy, better schools, and an improving infrastructure.

I guess that we could have ignored Saddam's violations of the cease fire and begged his forgiveness for any inconvenience, awarded Kofi an award for most dishonest public official and then just sit back like we did in Rwanda and watch a million people die. That is what the Democrats would have had us do.

Maybe, it is hard to tell what they would have us do because they change their positions too often to know what they stand for.

terrye said...

exdemocrat:

Yes, I read a part of it linked at powerline.

It was good. I agree that now is not the time to be talking about bringing guys home, but we have to realize that people are nervous about it.

Peter UK said...

Markg8.
You are the best argument against "Intelligent Design" that I have come across,you are a disgrace to Cretindom.
If you haven't got an argument keep your moronic view to yourself.