What to make of Murtha?

Friday, November 18, 2005
Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) is a topic of conversation on various blogs. I don't know what to make of the guy. He's been in congress for 30 years and I never heard the name before - or at least never took note of it. Nothing unusual about that since there are hundreds of representatives in the House.

But while tracking down some stuff re: "the draft" (yet again a rising topic among assorted variations of Leftoids), I noticed this (from House GOP Brings Up Draft in Order to Knock It Down, a WaPo article from Oct. 6, 2004)

Voting for the measure were Reps. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.), who long has argued the United States needs more troops in Iraq, and Fortney "Pete" Stark (D-Calif.), a 32-year House veteran.


The vote was about HR 163, which was the source of...

Rumors of reinstating the military draft, which have flourished for months in panicky e-mails, online chat rooms, college dorms and student newspapers, suddenly dominated the House floor yesterday in one of the strangest parliamentary maneuvers in memory. With even its sponsor voting against it, a bill to require young adults to perform military or civil service failed, 402 to 2.

I can personally attest to the "panicky rumors that fourished", they were widespread among the college crowd and, especially, parents of the college crowd.

Even Charles Rangel (D-NY), the primary sponsor of HR 163, voted against it. Murtha seems a very odd duck.

98 comments:

Buddy Larsen said...

Knuck, he's a 30 yr Marine Corp vet, and in a 'primitive' emotion-based system has thus earned expertise on what will happen viz Al Quaeda once we spool it up and haul ass.

That this sooth say different from the rest of the Corp is of no moment, apparently.

Rain dance make rain, if keep rain dancing until rain.

David Thomson said...

“Murtha seems a very odd duck.”

Congressman John Murtha rarely gets any attention. The world barely knows that he exists. Murtha has now become the darling of the Republican hating MSM. He provides additional evidence that the Democrats are weak on defense and cannot be trusted with national leadership. George McGovern found out the hard way that Americans ultimately want our country to win its wars. I have never seen any poll under 55% regarding this particular point.

In the long run, the Democrats are going to wish this week never occurred. The general public is not paying a lot of attention. They read an occasional headline and hear a few moments of some newscast---and then run down the street to continue with their holiday preparations. God help the Democrats when they finally spend more than few minutes thinking of these life and death issues.

Knucklehead said...

BTW, for anyone interested and in the spirit of pre-emption, Rangel's silly HR 163 ploy, which even he voted against, in addition to being a reprehensible scare tactic is his attempt to pander to his "base" using the myth that blacks and hispanics are "over represented" among US military casualties.

The data, of course, shows no such thing.

Buddy Larsen said...

Dave, God luvya, JFKerry won 48% of the vote just a year ago. Please don't decide that they don't know what they're doing. Remember, the schools no longer teach history, so this war can easily look like all pain, no gain.

David Thomson said...

“JFKerry won 48% of the vote just a year ago.”

The Republicans may not win landslides in 2006. Still, I strongly suspect that in the red and highly purple states the GOP candidates will have the backing of a slight majority of the American voters. That’s all they need.

markg8 said...

From the Corner:
http://tinyurl.com/cmmbm

MURTHA BREAKS [Rod Dreher]
Don't know how many of you caught Rep. John Murtha's very angry, very moving speech just now in which he called on the White House to institute an immediate withdrawal of US troops from Iraq. CNN didn't air the entire thing, but as I listened to it, I could feel the ground shift. Murtha, as you know, is not a Pelosi-style Chardonnay Democrat; he's a crusty retired career Marine who reminds me of the kinds of beer-slugging Democrats we used to have before the cultural left took over the party. Murtha, a conservative Dem who voted for the war, talked in detail about the sacrifices being borne by our soldiers and their families, and about his visits out to Walter Reed to look after the maimed, and how we've had enough, it's time to come home. He was hell on the president too.

If tough, non-effete guys like Murtha are willing to go this far, and can make the case in ways that Red America can relate to -- and listening to him talk was like listening to my dad, who's about the same age, and his hunting buddies -- then the president is in big trouble. I'm sure there's going to be an anti-Murtha pile-on in the conservative blogosphere, but from where I sit, conservatives would be fools not to take this man seriously.
Posted at 11:27 AM

Buddy Larsen said...

In fact, some have moved beyond ahistoricism all the way back to European 30s-style malhistoricism: this from C.Hitchens(bolding mine):

"...the Iraq Liberation Act, during the Clinton-Gore administration, in 1998...passed the Senate without a dissenting vote—did expressly call for the removal of Saddam Hussein but did not actually mention the use of direct U.S. military force.
Let us suppose, then, that we can find a senator who voted for the 1998 act to remove Saddam Hussein yet did not anticipate that it might entail the use of force, and who later voted for the 2002 resolution and did not appreciate that the authorization of force would entail the removal of Saddam Hussein! Would this senator kindly stand up and take a bow? He or she embodies all the moral and intellectual force of the anti-war movement. And don't be bashful, ladies and gentlemen of the "shocked, shocked" faction, we already know who you are.

ex-democrat said...

buddy - the left has long-believed the masses to be too dumb to think for themselves (alternatively unevolved hicks or pathetic dupes).
this being a given, the current strategy, focusing as it does upon ignoring or re-writing history (The Big Lie), over-simplifying the issues (war never solves anything), hammering straw-men (stockpiles of WMDs), and shameless pandering (we're for security without fighting!) becomes clear.
They're terrified of Hitch because (a) he's much smarter than any of them and (b) he knows where the bodies are buried. they just pray (hah) that he'll shut up, that no-one will read and/or understand him and quietly move the goalposts.

Buddy Larsen said...

Mark, you're right about the imagery--it hurts. I don't mean politically (tho that too), but on a human level.

But it's a derivative hurt--it's the hurt of the KIA and the wounded and their families. Cong. Murtha is just channeling it, as if anyone needs such an exhibition.

What about the kids who died fighting George III--why not start there, where Americans first died fighting for the country?

Why not speak out against human pain in general, and how much of it is caused by weighing the future on the same scale as the present?

Rick Ballard said...

Buddy,

Kerry pulled 48% as a single candidate backed by the Demsm propaganda organ playing with every stop pulled.

If the Dems think an ojectively pro al Queada position is a winning strategy then they should play it out until election day and see what happens. They won't but it would be nice to see them try.

When talk radio shifts focus and starts discussing dropping gas prices, full employment, low inflation, steady growth in the economy, a dropping deficit and the fact that this is the longest period with no terrorist attacks on US property since Carter ceded the US embassy to the Iranians then the Dems strategy will have to change.

markg8 said...

Some excerpts from Murtha's speech and a link to the whole thing.

http://tinyurl.com/8spl7

"The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion...The United States and coalition troops have done all they can in Iraq, but it is time for a change in direction. Our military is suffering. The future of our country is at risk. We cannot continue on the present course. It is evident that continued military action is not in the best interests of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or the Persian Gulf Region...

"General Casey said in a September 2005 hearing, "the perception of occupation in Iraq is a major driving force behind the insurgency." General Abizaid said on the same date, "Reducing the size and visibility of the coalition forces in Iraq is part of our counterinsurgency strategy."...The main reason for going to war has been discredited..."We spend more money on Intelligence that all the countries in the world together, and more on Intelligence than most countries GDP. But the intelligence concerning Iraq was wrong. It is not a world intelligence failure. It is a U.S. intelligence failure and the way that intelligence was misused...

Go watch the whole thing. He speaks the truth. Bush has fubared this war.

Knucklehead said...

How does one take seriously one of only two, out of over 400, congresscritters who voted "yes" on HR 163?

PA's 12th congressional district is interesting. Deer Hunter country.

Murtha is certainly no "military transformation" guy - he's old school. That doesn't make him a bad person but he doesn't appear to be a visionary thinking about the current war or the next one. His camp is surely with the pissed off TV generals who didn't get things their way. His expertise, which he goes to great pains to let us know has been called on to advise presidents since Polk or thereabouts, seems to be in pay and benefits.

Doesn't seem to be a nutball on economic issues. Pretty straightforward "bring home some bacon to be used to scrape the rust outta my section of the rustbelt" stuff.

Here's the proposed legislation he sponsors or co-sponsors. He currently only sponsors two bits of legislation, neither of which have co-sponsors: H.J.Res.21 (Proposed constitutional ammendment re: school prayer) and H.J.RES.73 which will be whatever his "Bring the Boys Home" bill turns out to be. His only committee assignment is Appropriations (which seems to be about the largest committee).

He seems a pretty ordinary and uninteresting good ol' boy. Nice that he cares about the troops but there doesn't seem to be much evidence of any "big picture" thinking available here.

Nothing in particular to do with Murtha but You don't have to be an amnesiac to be a Democrat, buddy, but it helps.

Buddy Larsen said...

Mark, another 2-4 trillion-dollar 911-style *loss* (not to mention the lives)--and its promise of a third, fourth, and so on--would utterly fubar the entire USA as we know it...and all that may be preventing it is what the USA armed forces did after the first one, and the boots on the ground one little borderline away from the terror-lairs in Syria, Iran, and maybe another country or two of note.

That's no more speculative--and a whole helluvalot more prudent (more considerate of the stakes)--than Cong. Murtha's list of assertions. And if we must play dueling quotes, I can paste thousands from sober, serious national leaders that agree.

Knucklehead said...

Buddy,

There's only one war they care about and that's the War Against Republicans. They will go to any lengths to fight that one and will not lift a finger to fight any other one. In their most altruistic, most "what's good for the human race" moments they would never come up with "fight against terrorists".

Buddy Larsen said...

I answer you on the assumption that there's little on the national scene more important than preventing another 911. Could be you disagree.

Buddy Larsen said...

Knuck, since the far-left tail seems to be waggin' their dog, could be that the system do-over that the terrorists want, ain't much different than the one the reds are after.

Buddy Larsen said...

And i agree. this system is too much. all i need is a scrap of turf, some tater seeds, a wood-burning stove for me and the pigs to sleep on, and a barrel of vodka. Oh, yes, and a short life-span.

markg8 said...

buddy that last bit sounds like life for most people in Russia. And hey their army believes in slaughtering Islamic folks pretty much indiscriminately too. Just sayin...

Buddy Larsen said...

As far as amping up the enemy, that's called "fighting back". Take a look at any war--the more the enemy--on either and both sides--fights back, the more resources get poured into the fight. German/Japanese war production and recruitment peaked in '44, when they'd all but lost their wars. How could we have kept them down at say '42 levels? By quitting fighting back. sure, the whole biz sucks. But, since we didn't start it, it's not likely to go away if we quit, is it?

So, what do we do?

Invite OBL to the UN and have a Peace Conference? Or quit, endure the terrorism as long as possible, then Nuke the MidEast?

Or, endure it until we ourselves pass on, and then, well, who the f**k cares?

Buddy Larsen said...

Mark, yes, Russia now, tomorrow the WORLD! And, per the 'muslim folks', i think you mean the guys who pulled Beslan?

markg8 said...

Nope I mean most of the province of Chechnya.

And yeah with Bush's fiscal policies don't be surprised if most of us in the US are living like Russians in a decade or two. And of course you'll blame whatever hapless Democrat is in power at the time for it, ignoring the
cause back here in the early 2000's.

Peter UK said...

"And yeah with Bush's fiscal policies don't be surprised if most of us in the US are living like Russians in a decade or two. And of course you'll blame whatever hapless Democrat is in power at the time for it, ignoring the
cause back here in the early 2000's."

Most of the Russians haven't lived like the Americans did in the 1940s,let alone this century..

The only way the US economy can end up like the Former soviet Union is if it adopts the socialist policies of the Democratic Left

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
"And if we must play dueling quotes, I can paste thousands from sober, serious national leaders that agree."
Markg8 is more your duelling banjos type.

Knucklehead said...

Peter,

The only way the US economy can end up like the Former soviet Union is if it adopts the socialist policies of the Democratic Left

Idunno, Peter. BDS is driving an awful lot of Americans to hammer pretty heavy on the vodka and prozac cocktails, and legions of once sedated old hippies are fetching long neglected bongs and hookahs from attics. If they start inhaling the dried mouse droppings, arachnid artifacts, and bat guano in those things and it could be the Black Death all over again. We could be in trouble.

markg8 said...

Well actually no Petey. Any government that spends way more than it takes in in taxes runs the risk of default, doesn't matter if it's from the
right or the left.

And dueling banjos? I prefer Delbert McClinton.

kmucks you have a talent for descriptive fiction.

terrye said...

Murtha has so far called for a draft and then said the fighting is too hard on the soldiers and their families. I wonder what he thinks a draft would do to families?

He has voted for the war and called for more troops, then he said they could not win and now he wants us to cut and run.

He has covered all the bases. You know what they say, consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

I come from a family which has always had people serving in the military. As much as we all want everyone home, military people by and large also want to finish their mission.. for their friends and their families.

As for Bush's fiscal policies this economy has grown at more than 3% growth rate for 10 quarters, that is something not done in decades.

The deficit has shrunk over 17% this year.

I remember Clinton's bubble and all the pretend money coming from the dot coms but as soon as he was out of office the GAO was revising numbers in the negative direction.

The economy is bigger than a president, it has its own cycles.

I really think it is irresponsible for Democrats to be telling folks that the days of $20 an hour factory jobs are coming back, social security can go on like this forever and if we just run away from Iraq everything will be alright.

I think defeatists like Murtha send a very bad signal to the enemy. Why give up when you have people like this giving you what you want?

And have you ever noticed how the left makes a big deal out of it when some guy who was in the military says something they want to hear, but when the exMarine is someone like Oliver North he is a baby killing moron?

terrye said...

How many of you guys think a lot of this is the Democrats trying to position themselves to take credit for any upcoming troop draw downs?

terrye said...

mark are you aware of the fact that government tax receipts actually went up when the taxes were cut?

I will never forget Clinton's retrocative tax increase. I was divorced, trying to support myself and living check to check.

That did not help me.

Peter UK said...

"Well actually no Petey. Any government that spends way more than it takes in in taxes runs the risk of default"
Ignorance of economics another part of your repertoire Mook?
Countries don't work the same way as small businesses.You owe the bank,you have a problem,the US owes the bank,the bank has a problem.
If you print money it is a Federal offence,if the government prints money it is tough on the creditors.

markg8 said...

Oliver North is a baby killing moron who took a birthday cake to Ayatollah Khomeini. And traded arms for hostages. And helped kill 250,000 campesinos in Reagan's dirty little not so secret wars in Central America.
I hope this post is short enough for you.

markg8 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
markg8 said...

Yeah and maybe that's why creditors like Red China are investing in oil wells these days. Eventually our creditors may decide to stop throwing good money after bad or in Red China's case decide they don't need our market anymore and just stop buying our treasury bills. Or maybe they'll decide it's time to take Tawian. Now what would they need to do before they did that?

Buddy Larsen said...

Terrye, that was my first thought, re Kerry's "20,000 home by Thanksgiving" campaign. He's done that aplenty throughout his career--read the handwriting on the wall, then leapt forward to take the credit. "I see the White house heard my call...." I can hear it now. Pardon me while I step outside & upchuck.

Mark, anyone who likes Delbert Mclinton can't be all bad. Maybe when we execute plan X-'08, we'll send you to one of the nicer labor camps. Maybe the big one near Waco, rather than the one for the badasses up at the North Pole. But you have to behave.

Buddy Larsen said...

Mark, where can I send you a copy of my new book "Economics for Toddlers"?

Peter UK said...

Terrye
"And have you ever noticed how the left makes a big deal out of it when some guy who was in the military says something they want to hear, but when the exMarine is someone like Oliver North he is a baby killing moron?"

Yes,amazing,John Kerry's big selling point was that he had served,they were proud of Captain Kid Killer.

Knucklehead said...

From an AP Online, via Open Source Media U.S. Commander Counters Murtha on Iraq:

In a statement about his proposed legislation to remove troops from Iraq, Rep. Murtha had this to say:

"Our troops have become the primary target of the insurgency," Murtha, a longtime hawk on foreign and military affairs issues, said Thursday.

Upon what is the "longtime hawk on foreign and military affairs" business based?

And can we please dispense with the insurgency? They are Baathist and other forms of Islamofascists murdering scum.

As for Our troops have become the primary target of the murdering scum, what about the Scores Killed In Iraqi Suicide Attacks:

Suicide bombers killed at least 74 worshippers at two Shia mosques near the Iranian border Friday while in Baghdad two car bombs destroyed the blast wall protecting a hotel housing international journalists and killed eight Iraqis.

The "primary targets" of the murderers are anyone and everyone. Our troops are working, and risking and losing their lives, to kill the murdering scum.

A day after [Murtha's] comments, a U.S. field commander in Iraq countered the position of the usually pro-military congressman.

"Here on the ground, our job is not done," said Col. James Brown, commander of the 56th Brigade Combat Team, when asked about Murtha's comments during a weekly briefing that American field commanders routinely give to Pentagon reporters.

Speaking from a U.S. logistics base at Balad, north of Baghdad, two days before his scheduled return to Texas, Brown said: "We have to finish the job that we began here. It's important for the security of this nation."


And, of course, we must hear from Senator Munchausen:

"I won't stand for the swift-boating of Jack Murtha," Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic presidential nominee in 2004, responded Friday.

To quote the future senator from the Great State of Indiana:

Sit down and shutup, frenchy pants.

"There is no sterner stuff than the backbone and courage that defines Jack Murtha's character and conscience," Kerry said.

Nobody is questioning Jack Murtha's backbone or courage. It is his intelligence and understanding of the world that are in question.

Peter UK said...

"Red China's case decide they don't need our market anymore and just stop buying our treasury bills."

This is so stunningly stupid that it should be framed.

Buddy Larsen said...

Mark, the best barometerof what RR accomplished in preventing a communist takeover of Central America is what their markets and GDPs have done since he fought off the Soviet-backed Sandinistas (despite their friends Kerry and Harkin) and settled the people on the rule of law, free mkts, and institutional protection of private property.

Hop over to Google and take a look. Note that the whole land mass market economy south of the Rio Grande started up under RR, leveled out under Clinton, then went parabolic upward under GWB.

These are just numbers, but behind them are hundreds of millions with hope and confidence now, and a growing stake in an ownership future.

Forget your boy Chavez--he's a moment of static (courtesy of Jimmy Carter, every dictator's favorite American) and is busily screwing up so badly that he's making the rest of L/Am even more anti-communist.

markg8 said...

Buddy send that copy to:

George W. Bush
1600 Pennsylvania Ave
Washington DC

Does it have pictures of fire trucks?
I hear he likes fire trucks.

Buddy Larsen said...

Latin American communism was going to be village rule by local tribute-supported armed gang--fine if you were in the gang. Always bothered me how the party of the little guy--your party, Mark--could so blithely sell out so many (brown) little guys, for the sake of one-ups on the GOP, way far away in rich, other-worldly Washington DC. And I know--I was there.

Buddy Larsen said...

Fire trucks-LOL. But, sorry, North Pole for you, boy.

markg8 said...

China's plan is bring another 300 million of their 1.3 billion out of poverty by sometime next decade. When and if they do they'll be able to sell
the products they now sell to us internally. They can then relatively painlessly cut us loose if they so choose.

Peter UK said...

"Fire trucks"?
Have you got your brain stuck in your zip again Mook? Or is it digital Tourettes Syndrome....you meant to type something cogent but it just came out "Fire trucks"?

markg8 said...

Yeah buddy things are going so well in Central America we don't even have a illegal immigrant problema anymore!

flenser said...

markg8 said;

"China's plan is bring another 300 million of their 1.3 billion out of poverty by sometime next decade. When and if they do they'll be able to sell
the products they now sell to us internally. They can then relatively painlessly cut us loose if they so choose."

How is it possible that somebody can reach the age of forty-nine, which mark claims to be, and still be so illiterate economically?

markg8 said...

Hey I'm goin to a high school football game tonight and it's gonna be 20F (that's colder than Petey's lovelife)
so I like it cold.

Buddy Larsen said...

So, what, the Dems want China to keep the 300 million in poverty? More 'party of the little guy'?

The Yuan is still--even with the 'basket' a dollarized money--if they want an economic war thru their US bond holdings, they'll kill their own reserves first of all. Thus Peter's 'stunningly stupid' directed at same.

You really--really--ought to read wider, Mark--get out of the ideological economics (forget robert 'never right' reich) and into something more academic.

markg8 said...

Ok fellas tell me how me we're "growing our way out of debt". Go ahead. Yeah the deficit is down 17% from last year! Woohoo! Alright! High five me!

LOL

Buddy Larsen said...

The problema could be woise. Rising mkts have made many mobile enough to try for even more in this clean, well-lit, republican nation. You guys, Mark, would, in time, reverse the flow--gringos would be trying to sneak OUT.

markg8 said...

"if they want an economic war thru their US bond holdings, they'll kill their own reserves first of all."

Hence the purchase of hard commodities
like oil. You sure put a lot of faith in communists don't you gents? Pathetic.

markg8 said...

I'm thinking of moving to Costa Rica. Better health care.

Buddy Larsen said...

The economy--by every measure--is fair-to-excellent. Convert your scare numbers into %s, then it'll clarify for ya. The big boom will have to wait until we get you lefty buzzkillers settled into the labor camps.

Buddy Larsen said...

So, they're running up commodity prices in order to harm their lo-cost producer position in soft goods, as well as decrease their hard currency buying power?

Buddy Larsen said...

Re costa rica, don't let the door hit ya in the ass on yer way out.

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
You will have to translate that into Cretinese for Mookie.

Buddy Larsen said...

Dems can't manage that leap of faith, that there's such a thing as mutually-advantageous economic relationships that also involve competition. Everything has to be simpler for them, or else they frown and sulk, figuring that somehow, some way, they're gettin' screwed.

markg8 said...

"The economy--by every measure--is fair-to-excellent."

Yeah you can go out and lease a new car and run up your credit cards to the max buying furniture and clothes and anyone who comes over would say your look like you're doing real well. But then you have to pay for it. It works for awhile but eventually the cheap interests rates go away when they get a look at your credit record don't they?

terrye said...

mark:

If you move to Costa Rica, watch what you say, they are very conservative.

I know people from ElSalvador and believe it or not the Marxists are not all that popular there. They are murdering criminals.

In fact in the region the Sandinistas of Nicaragua had the worse human rights abuses, as if the left cared. After all they were communists so they could kill and maim all they want.

I was not all that crazy about Reagan's policy at the time but he was a lot closer to being right than Carter was, that is for sure.

The problem with the regio has a lot to do with a feudal casts system and corruption and that is not our fault.

Believe it or not, not everything is.

markg8 said...

buddy you enjoy your stay in Volgograd too!

Peter UK said...

"It works for awhile but eventually the cheap interests rates go away when they get a look at your credit record don't they?"

Well if you are stupid enough to get into debt without having any assets or secure future income.

markg8 said...

"I know people from ElSalvador and believe it or not the Marxists are not all that popular there."

No kidding! One of those people would be Markos Moulitsas Zúniga aka the proprietor of Daily Kos. He hates commies too. But you'd never know that hanging around here.

Buddy Larsen said...

Yeah, that debt stuff sux alright. Imagine, having to pay people back! with interest! The fascism of it all. Much better to walk 'til you're 35, THEN buy the car with all cash. And live with ma n' pa--you, the wife and kids, and yer brother and HIS wife and kids--in the spare room until you're 50 and can buy a house with all cash. Luv it!

Peter UK said...

"One of those people would be Markos Moulitsas Zúniga aka the proprietor of Daily Kos. He hates commies too"

Yes,just too right wing for him.

Buddy Larsen said...

I read somewhere he's selling 6 to 8 ads per week @ $1500/per ad/per week. Hey, that's some lefty! Quick, somebody gimme a Greek fisherman's cap!

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
Nah! Borrow the money,let your business go tits up and leg it to Costa Rica,fight extradition on political grounds and just hope the neighbours don't notice your new country hasn't got an army.

Peter UK said...

The Republicans are begiining to fight this

Buddy Larsen said...

Peter, that's right out of the Small Business Administration handbook! Paste a biz plan off the net, grab the dough from Uncle Softy, and toss the the biz plan in the trashcan on yer way to Costa Rica! Whoopee!

markg8 said...

See ya boys, I'll be incommunicado the next few weeks sans computer. Enjoy the Republican implosion while I'm gone. Oh one last tidbit to help you sleep tonight courtesy of Roll Call:

"Michael Scanlon has agreed to testify against one-time business partner Jack Abramoff in any future criminal case involving the ex-lobbying superstar.

The Justice Department has filed a “criminal information” document in federal court related to Scanlon, and there will be a hearing before a federal judge Monday afternoon.

At that time, Scanlon is expected to plead guilty to one felony count of conspiracy. Scanlon, a former aide to Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas), would then testify against Abramoff and anyone else indicted in the case, according to Justice Department sources."

If you don't know why this should worry you, well you haven't been paying attention.

Buddy Larsen said...

Well, if none of that comes thru for Mark, maybe with time and limitless oodles of free tax money, they'll uncover DeLay's greatgrandaddy's elementary school records, and will be able to finally bring down the West via that 1902 peggy sue's pigtail-in-the-inkwell incident.

Meanwhile...back at the ranch....

Peter UK said...

Markg8.
Incommunicado,I am sure if you behave they will let you use the prison computer.
What did you get sent down for fraud?

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
Interesting Markg8's patriotism,wishing the ruling party in America to implode.elections when 2008? So there would be a power vacuum in US government in time of war.This is the Democratic Strategy?

Buddy Larsen said...

Well, we must be winning the war, judging by the Dem's frantic anxiety to hurry and lose it while there's still time.

We can ask Mark, soon as he gets set up in Costa Rica and has had time to steal a new computer.

Smart--if he gets his way, when the new petro-narco-terror state of OsamasIraq burns New Jersey, he'll be off wasting Margaritaville.

Buddy Larsen said...

anyhoo, Peter, FoxNews just ran some new polls--phrased in that way of letting people answer the question they think they're being asked--and 56% of Americans have a high-expectation of that Iraq will become a stable democracy (this 56% will reliably vote conservative), and 19% think we should pull out now.

This is, you know, that same bulldoggedly ignorant, culturally useless grab-bag of the jealous and pissed-off that has always been with us, and, until we level all aspects of society for them, always will be.

Buddy Larsen said...

Unfortunately, that entire 19% is apparently in journalism.

Peter UK said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Peter UK said...

Buddy,
They are pissed off because George Bush is running things,they are not.

Are they not nuanced,do they not have creative writing degrees,have they not gone to journalism school,do they not go to the right parties,say the right things,drink latte,have important hair,have that intangible quality of "knowing" they are right,that being famous automatically brings all the knowledge of the universe,are they not morally superior,to put it bluntly better human beings,how on earth can it possibly not be them?

Buddy Larsen said...

For sure, Peter, many things in Nature are beautiful, deadly, and totally slave to instinct.

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
In this case I'm not sure about the beautiful.

Buddy Larsen said...

Well, in Tom Wolfe's radical chic, the beautiful people, mau-mauing the flack-catchers, sort of way. I doubt that Wolfe is very big in England (too provincial), but ever since the conductor of the NY Philharmonic joined the Black Panthers, some eons ago in the 70s, he's chronicled the idiocy oft induced by privilege's layered removal from the consequences of its own activity.

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
I know what you mean,that kind of embalmed, mummified beauty where bits adhere to your lips.If think the sound is Megh,megh!
Have indeed read Tom Wolfe,a rare copy in English translation that was smuggled in, hidden in a tin of Spam,very enjoyable.Made a change from not reading "Satanic Verses"

Buddy Larsen said...

Peter, stupid me, having read you for some time, and being familiar with your knowledge of the World Wars, who else would know more about the dangers of leadership-by-birthright than someone whose country had endured WWI? Wonder how many Americans understand the meaning of those 1914-18 casualty lists, and how they still color British politics?

Buddy Larsen said...

What was that--in a nation with a quarter of the USA population--30,000 KIA the first day of The Somme? That would be 120,000 KIA here now, in one day. Consequences, unimaginable. Another time when Britain held together when any other free nation on the planet may not've: when in the midst of Hitler's wild success, the Repulse and the brand-new, pride of the nation, Prince of Wales were both rather nonchalantly sunk in the Pacific by Japanese aircraft that weren't even known to be in the area. Yet, Britain stiffened that lip and came back. Good iron. and thank goodness. We all had a very real chance to go under, and be living now in a perfected, permanent, gestapo nightmare.

Buddy Larsen said...

Churchill in the early 1940s, as Lincoln in the early 1860s, saved the nation with words. "Mere" words.

Peter UK said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Buddy Larsen said...

And not soothing "I'm okay, you're okay" words; rather the opposite. Each had the sense to admit to the need for blood, sweat, toil and tears, and the people had the sense to comprehend that the choice was that or something far worse. And it all really happened, just yesterday.

Buddy Larsen said...

Those were the "Kitchener Brigades", weren't they? Whole villages would lose their entire male generation in an hour or two.

It's a wonder the nation didn't quit, isn't it?

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
Did you know that trench warfare involve a macabre race? The Artillery would put down a barrage on the deep German bunkers,the infantry had to cross no-mans land before the germans climbed of out the bunkers with their machine guns.Everything depended on whether the infantry could negotiate a very real quagmire,with deep shell holes full of mud,cross what was left of the barbed wire,if indeed the shells had made any impact on it at all,before the German machine gunners ran up the stairs.
The water cooled HMGs were the size of a large motorbike,resembling a small artillery piece.On one occasion only one gun survived the barrage..it was enough to wipe out the assault.
Young men used to enlist by the streetful,they had been born together,gone to school together,laughed, lived and loved together....and died in the mud toghether...some had not even reached eighteen...lying about their age to stay with their friends.

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
In those days the press were on our side,understanding the need for solidarity in times of peril.
Every year those who could be called "The Greatest Generation" seems to lessen,leaving the degenerate, sneering ,jeering,witless fools we see now.
Mechanised warfare obviously acts a form of unnatural selection leaving the feeble drones that the few have to protect.Liberal society is unable to protect itself,we should be grateful we are not facing a foe which is organised.

Buddy Larsen said...

Not yet, anyway.

I agree, a current threat with the power of the WWII Axis would run through our liberal societies like grass through a goose. Like laxatives through Aunt Maggie.

A big question is numbers--how great a percentage of liberals can a population support before the war-fighters decide there's nothing worth protecting?

Buddy Larsen said...

ha--it looks like i forecast your 8:24 with my 8:21--due to your re-write. wish I COULD do that--a week in the mkts and i could finally--as God intended--RULE the WORLD! ;-)

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
There is a rather delightful little conundrum,there is a group of single cell organisms,which is demanding more middle class Republican college kids join up.
Now these kids are smart,educated multicellular sentient beings,they train,they serve,get combat experience in urban and guerilla warfare and they come back to a world run by the amoebas.
These kids were destined to run things anyway,might it not cross their minds to tidy up.It is the old be careful what you wish for you might get it scenario.

Buddy Larsen said...

Yes, with a strong cohort of Iraq vets returning to State U., Professor Ponytail is for sure in for a challenging glide into retirement. Couldn't happen to a nicer pink boomer, could it? ;-)

Peter UK said...

Bubby,
That generation did more damage to western Culture than Attilla the Hun,they screamed about the man and the evils of capitalism,then hit the public sector like a plague of locusts,they have been feeding there ever since

Buddy Larsen said...

After the Depression and WWII, ma & pa wanted their kids to have what they themselves hadn't had. Goes back to what you said about taking care what you wish for.

Peter UK said...

Buddy,
That was 5he problem,the creation of the teenager.Before then people had been children then little adults then adults,suddenly there was another option.The teenage counter culture was a foregone conclusion,in its own way no bad thing,just an embarrassment when people get stuck on teenager for the rest of their lives.
I suppose it allows them to avoid the resposibilty of themselves now being "the man".

Buddy Larsen said...

And it really is permanently conflicted. Freedom has to include the freedom to be a fool. And the Beatles were sublime. It's just that a growing up never happened for so, so many.

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