Mort Kondracke on the Loud Right

Saturday, November 11, 2006
That is what Mort Kondracke calls it.

Yet full withdrawal {from Iraq.-ed.} is a distinct minority position — 30 percent — and Democrats won’t have the country’s support if they force it. Encouragingly, they say they won’t.

The clearest repudiation of the loud right came on the issue of immigration. By a margin of 57 percent to 38 percent, voters said they wanted illegal immigrants who work in the U.S. to be allowed a chance to apply for legal status and not be deported.

Voters in Arizona rejected two of the nation’s most vociferous immigration restrictionists, Rep. J.D. Hayworth (R) and Minuteman founder Randy Graf (R).

House Republicans massively bought into the talk-show claque’s agenda by rejecting Bush’s Latino-friendly proposal for comprehensive immigration reform, and they’ve suffered important damage as a result.

Bush managed to capture 44 percent of the Latino vote in 2004, according to disputed exit polls, but this year Hispanics went Democratic by a margin of 72 percent to 27 percent, 10 points higher than in 2002.

If Republicans and Democrats are looking for an issue around which to demonstrate they can unify and accomplish something, they could use the lame-duck session of Congress to pass the comprehensive Senate immigration bill.


Boy this will get the nativists going. The truth is I have never considered Bush a hard core conservative. I have always thought of him as center right and capable of working with the opposition. At least that was his reputation when he was Governor of Texas.

A war is in and of itself hard to maintain support for. There is a saying for the feeling, war weary. We do not need to add polarizing rhetoric about everything from religion to immigration. I love jumping on the Left. I am never happier than when I am on a message board eating some troll's lunch. But if Mort is right we need to try to tone it down. The Left may not be capable of civility, but maybe we should work a little harder at it. The normal people are getting fed up.

19 comments:

truepeers said...

Yes, civility first. Yet civilty can't help us with the fact that there is little point in trying to politely convince many an ideologue of your point of view, especially if it is one that is unfamiliar to him - still it is fun to go after leftists from time to time isn't it?

And there are many out there today whose ideologies, or religion, are antithetical to the continued existence of our civilization and constitutions. So, you just have to ignore those you can't touch, or condemn them for the sake of others finding their way. Civility doesn't always have its place in bringing home an honest picture of the stakes.

The problem with immigration is that no one knows how many can be integrated into one's nation, and at what point a large number of immigrants from another culture will tip the civilizational balance, in some regions at least, so that the integration is towards the immigrant's culture, not yours. It is because no one can know how many is fine, how many too many, that the rhetoric gets blown to kingdom come. Uncertainty is the source of excess in every kind of market. I don't see any way out of that. You either debate the topic and get ready for all the apocalyptic fears or the utopian counters, or you declare immigration a forbidden topic.

terrye said...

truepeers:

You may not be able to convince an ideologue with civility, but it was not the ideologues that decided this election, it was the middle of the road people who just want some peace and quiet.

As far as immigration the tone with which some have approached this subject has alienated a lot of people. For instance hispanic Americans do not consider themselves an alien culture, they think they are part of America. They have gotten the distinct impression from the right that Republicans want nothing to do with them. That is not good in terms of elections.

For instance I had a conversation with one stubborn man the other day. He does not have any hispanics where he works, he does not live near any. But he sees them when he goes to Indianapolis. He was angry after the election because he said the hispanics in Indy supposedly voted for the Democrat because of the immigration issue. These people were citizens, and so they can vote for whoever they want to. But he made a point of calling them names and saying they do not belong in America

This country is a nation of immigrants. In fact I heard Michael Barone say the other day that a smaller percentage of our population are immigrants today than were 100 years ago. Somehow we not only survived it, we benefited from it.

Luther McLeod said...

Here are my view's on immigration.

We do not live a hundred years ago. We do not live fifty years ago. We live in the here and now.

IOW's the world has changed.

All I want is a gate. And before I let you through that gate, I want your name and date of birth. I want a record of your criminal history, if you have one.

In short, I want to know if you are of legitimate character to be granted entry and residence to this country. Even the poorest Mexican can usually meet these meager qualifications.

I refuse to feel guilty about the above.

I don't want to keep anyone out , I just want control of our borders.

I mean, just how far do we strech to get votes?

So, I'm not normal? Well, duh...

lurker said...

While I want the gate as Luthor describes but those illegal immigrants that are already here need to be assimilated.

lurker said...

Mort Kondracke is saying this only because the democrats have the majority.

Will he be saying this had the Republicans the majority?

I'd hate to see the democrats retaining the majority in 2008. Does any of us trust these democrats?

Luther McLeod said...

Why do people always confuse me with that 'evil' genius, Lex Luthor? Had I half his brain...

I have no problem with assimilating those who are here. And they will be, assimilated, that is. We have no options in that respect. It is a done deal.

My only point is, can we not have some control in the future?

I refuse to being called a racist (not here, but in general) because I wish some modicum of control on who enters this country. The world isn't now, what it was back then.

lurker said...

Luthor, I was agreeing with you. Your last post is excellent. We need to control our future.

The process to allow people into our country need not be as complicated and costly as it is today. Including asylum.

Luther McLeod said...

Lurker

I know you were. I am sorry if my writing skills indicated otherwise.

truepeers said...

it was not the ideologues that decided this election, it was the middle of the road people who just want some peace and quiet.

-yes, they wanted the issue settled; they don't want to talk about it because mass immigration is inherently contentious, always has been even in early years of the last century when, as you say, the percentage of immigrants was higher than today (different economy, though - half those immigrants went to the farms of the prairies and most of the rest to factories).

-I'm not sure assimilation is the primary issue. It tends to happen. Right now we have a ruling ideology of multiculturalism which isn't really about real diversity because it demands from everyone a lot of conformity to elite, bureaucratic rule - no one but the politicaly correct bureaucrats feel confident representing the public good. What I fear most is that we lose the ability to govern ourselves because we fail to see all the others around us as our fellow members of the nation where all our significant differences are interchangeable wo that we can all try to represent ourselves in a ways that appeal to each other. And instead we see the others as competitors in a game ruled by elites who play one off against another. IOW I fear rule by imperial overlords instead of national self-rule. And in the empire of our liberal elites the various groups played off against each other don't have to be very different. In fact you can do an awful lot of damage by playing on small differences. Mass immigration becomes a way for elites to sustain their ideology and rule.

terrye said...

I think the point being missed here is that the people have spoken to a great extent. We can complain about it all we want, but when the MinuteMan candidate can not carry Cochise County it is obvious something is wrong with his message. At least as far as most people are concerned. I think that most people do not consider guest worker programs and secure borders to be mutually exclusive. The loud right does.

Seneca the Younger said...

Hell, I'd be happy if we could manage to get some civility in the way we talk about the guys on our side.

Seneca the Younger said...

In short, I want to know if you are of legitimate character to be granted entry and residence to this country.

Well, shit, Luther, my own grandfather was chased into this country by a posse.

Seneca the Younger said...

Luthor, I was agreeing with you. Your last post is excellent. We need to control our future.

And we need free ice cream.

And ponies, we all need ponies.

terrye said...

seneca:

I remember when i told my Daddy I wanted to do some work on the old family tree. He advised against it saying I might not like what I found back there.

In fact I was once told by an older German lady that everyone knew the thieves and crooks and criminals came to America to escape the law. She swore that is what a lot of the immigrants were. I bet a lot of Europeans still believe that.

And yes, people need to ease up. The Loud Rigth especially, in some ways they are as paranoid as the loony left.

The loud right and the loony left, a match made in heaven.

Luther McLeod said...

"Well, shit, Luther, my own grandfather was chased into this country by a posse"

LOL, so may have my great/grand fathers been chased as well, there was always something a little nefarious about them.

Now I'll go back to my pony searching if you don't mind.

Terrye

I just saw your comment in preview before posting the above. Are my views being considered as 'loud right'? I ask because I really don't feel that they are.

terrye said...

luther:

No, not at all.

I think that the loud Right Mort was talking about was some talk show people and radio people. I would throw in Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. They grate on people's nerves.

Syl said...

Well, call me a bigot. I don't care WHO comes into this country illegally as long as they aren't muslim.

There I said it. There's NO reason for a muslim to cross the border from Mexico unless he/she has some nefarious plan.

As for the Mexicans themselves, I really don't mind all that much.

Luther McLeod said...

Terrye

Thanks for the clarification. Michelle and Ann are entertainment, and that's OK as far as it goes, but there does come a point...

Syl

In some ways I certainly agree with you. But, in the end, I just want some type of control over who enters, criteria to be determined.

Luther McLeod said...

Terrye

I swear I am not trying to belabor a point, but I just ran across this at Maggie's Farm, and, no, I did not check the source from PoliPundit. But if these crime statistics are correct (and it is the first time I have seen them) then they are, for me, pretty damning reason for that "gate" I was talking about.