WaPo Takes a Stand for Cowardice!!

Saturday, November 12, 2005
According to this piece the Washington Post avoided providing evidence to Patrick Fitzgerald by out lawyering him. (I thought Fitz was "the smartest guy in the room? Is a phone booth or a coat closet a room?)

Mr. Libby's attorneys should have some fun with Fitz on this issue. According to the article:
Negotiations between Fitzgerald and the Post resulted in a three-page agreement that listed questions the prosecutor could not ask. In short, the agreement walled off questions about the actual conversations and allowed the reporters to keep their notes—and their promises to not reveal their sources. By September 2004, the Post had reached an agreement with the special prosecutor, and its reporters had complied with Fitzgerald’s requests without revealing sources or violating confidentiality.


Doesn't it just warm the cockles of your heart to know that the fearless prosecutor in this case was able to reach an accomodation with the poor little WaPo in order to allow them to protect the 'anonymous' sources that we've all come to love? The only teeny, tiny problem with the accomodationist position is that it is antithetical to an investigation whose purported purpose is the discovery of all facts surrounding the incident being investigated.

Mr. Libby has also engaged some very sharp and competent attorneys. They are undoubtedly sharp enough to produce briefs concerning discovery issues that are going to bring the Sixth and the First Amendment into sharp conflict. Fitzgerald's accomodation with the WaPo bends over backwards with regard to the First Amendment.

We'll see what the court thinks about his contortions having abrogated the defendants Sixth Amendment rights. How in the world can it be determined that the WaPo agreement may not have prevented discovery of exculpatory material concerning Mr. Libbt? And how in the world can a claim be made that Fitzgerald is prosecuting in good faith when he has kowtowed in this manner to the press?

An investigation that excludes questioning the press about leaking to the press - and especially Pincus - is simply ridiculous.

*Exculpatory authors note: Since IANAL all references to Rights are based upon plain text reading. I lack the necessary training to discern the penumbras of any emanations from either amendment.

76 comments:

topsecretk9 said...

Rick

I still don't get this. Fitz made accommodations with the other reporters in the case too. I just do not understand why Fitz would do this. He seems to be saying, if someone outside of the WH told (even before) you I DON'T want to know.

Also Rick, how does this jib with Libby have voluntarily testified, but the reporters having to be compelled. I know you have been suspect of fitz for a time...but I am so surprised he would shape a case that would be so easily exploitable.

Peter UK said...

Will Fitzgerald accomodation tie the hands of Libby's lawyers,or can they subpoena journalists?

markg8 said...

Either way the journalists will have to tesify and Libby's lawyers can have at them under cross.

If Fitz said he only wanted to know about what admin people told the reporters and not what others had said, and I'm not at all sure that's what happened, then I'd say he doesn't want to pollute his case. He was under enormous pressure to be thorough, fair and not trample freedom of the press especially by the misguided New York Times. There's a reason why we on the left refer to the Grey Lady as the "New Pravda".

Rick Ballard said...

TS9,

Patrick Fitzgerald has a well earned reputation as a dedicated and tenacious prosecutor. I do not doubt that he is an intelligent man nor do I believe that he has done anything in this instance that is beyond the bounds of prosecutorial discretion.

I do believe, however, that in the instance at hand, involving an investigation as to who "leaked" Plame's identity to the press, a grant of limits to his investigation to persons who may, in fact, have information relating to a complete resolution of the matter is ridiculous on its face.

Pincus' livelihood and reputation rest on his use of and reliance upon anonymous cowards possessing the courage to whisper in the dark but lacking the courage to have their names known. I am aware that it is common practice and I would never claim that Pincus was anything but common as a man and a journalist but I consider the "press shield" to be a coward's shield and I am completely unimpressed with Fitzgerald's lack of backbone in forcing the anonymous vermin into the light.

If some of the vermin happen to be Republican and working in the WH, that's their tough luck. If whatever you are doing in the dark is something that you would ashamed to be seen doing in the light, then perhaps you should reconsider doing it at all.

Joe Wilson is a liar and a cheap hustler. It would have been better to have publicly said so from the beginning rather than letting this matter become such a waste of time and energy. Ignoring the preening jerk would have worked as well.

markg8 said...

I don't agree with your take on Joe Wilson but the rest of the post is spot on rick. I think a journalistic rule of thumb on anonymous sources ought to be: don't grant it if the information provided is partisan spin of any sort. If the information provided turns out to be false then the name should be exposed.

It was stupid to try to smear Wilson. The insurgency hadn't yet developed fully and they were successfully selling the "it's the freedom stupid" meme to the public at the time. The idea that Wilson went to sunny Niger on a government paid vacation arranged by his wife was always weak. Attacking him was overkill they didn't have to do and now it's come back to bite them.

Rick Ballard said...

Come now< Mark. Wilson's trip was a boondoggle arranged by his wife to support his faltering "consulting" business. He allowed himself to be used by Dem operatives based upon a desire to be included in an administration that might have come to power if only the candidate selected had shown any character.

The WH gave the pipsqueak too much attention because of the Times "lending" the Kerry camp the e-page for a little fun and games. Wilson's story was so weak it didn't even meet the Times low standards regarding what constitutes 'news'. The WH should have taken another week and squashed Wilson like a bug.

markg8 said...

So Wilson was just a partisan tool for Kerry, a former State Dept. bureaucrat (with a handsome pension no doubt) and a failed businessman?
Is that your argument? He's just doing this for money and fame? Well he got it. And he wouldn't have if they'd just shut up about him.

Nick Christof wrote the initial op-ed in the Times in May 2003 based on the unnamed Wilson's information. Joe Wilson wrote his op-ed and Valerie Plame was outed in July 2003. He didn't endorse Kerry until that fall. He officially joined the Kerry campaign as an advisor in February 2004.

That whole spring of 2003 as the WMD
story went up in smoke they just kept talking louder. It pissed Wilson off. They could have just quit repeating the Niger story but as the indictment shows instead they were digging furiously for dirt on Wilson in May. They could have let Tenet's mea culpa stand. Wilson probably would have been happy with that. But they couldn't bring themselves to do that.

terrye said...

Considering the fact that Wilson and Plame started all this I think they are the ones who should go to jail, if anyone does.

For instance, did Plame suggest to her husband that lying to reporters [or even talking to them] about a secret mission might not be a good idea?

Why did Wilson lie about who sent him on the trip?

Why did the CIA confirm Plame's employment to Novak?

Why didn't the CIA kill the story?

Why didn't Wilson have to sign a confidentiality agreement?

Why didn't anyone at the CIA check his work before he published so that obvious lies would not be included?

Why did he say one thing to reporters and something else to Senate investigators?

Why was it that he was still saying weapons would be found in Iraq even after the invasion and then suddenly change his opinion?

Why lie about seeing the forged documents and then say he "mispoke"?

Why not submit a written report of the trip?

Why change the story of the findings of the trip?

If he was concerned about his wife being outed why leave her name in his online bio after the wrote his infamous oped?

If he was not lying why did the Kerry cmapaign drop him?

Why are the lefties so desperate to enslave the Iraqi people and destroy the president that they would try to make a hero out of a man that is an obvious fraud?

Why is it no big deal that Hillary Clinton said 'I can't recall' more than 200 times under oath but a faulty memory is an obvious lie if the person in question is a Republican?

Why would WaPo make a deal when their man Pincus helped get this ball rolling in the first damn place?

You know from now on if a story is based on an "anonymous" source, I am just going to have take it with a big fat grain of salt.

Peter UK said...

"Nick Christof wrote the initial op-ed in the Times in May 2003 based on the unnamed Wilson's information. Joe Wilson wrote his op-ed and Valerie Plame was outed in July 2003."

..and you can not see the connection,Wilson blabbed about a job,which his wife had been instrumental in gettting him,immediately throwing his whole life under the spotlight.
The first question anyone would ask is, why Wilson had been sent to Niger under the auspices of the CIA.
Was Plame that "covert" that Wilson did not know,because if he did,why did he do the equivalent of appearing on "Celebrity,My Wifes a Spy"?

markg8 said...

I suggest you folks go read some real reporting on the subject instead of just your talking points and innuendo from like minded blogs.

I shouldn't have to remind you that there's an ongoing investigation and for the first time in 135 years a current member of the WH staff was indicted on felony criminal charges.

topsecretk9 said...

Mark
He didn't endorse Kerry until that fall. He officially joined the Kerry campaign as an advisor in February 2004

your just dead wrong:

Boston Globe 10-2-2003:

"Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, who said a Bush aide disclosed that his wife is a CIA operative in retaliation for his criticism of the Iraq war, has worked since May as an unpaid adviser to Senator John F. Kerry, offering foreign policy advice and speechwriting tips to the Democratic presidential candidate from Massachusetts. Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie said Wilson's work for Democrats may have motivated him to attack the administration...

...Kerry's advisers acknowledged yesterday that Wilson, who has also donated $2,000 to Kerry this year, told them about his allegations against the White House involving his wife before going public with them this summer. But Rand Beers, Kerry's top adviser on foreign affairs, said the campaign has not played a role in coordinating Wilson's charges."

Rick Ballard said...

Terrye,

You ought to turn that comment into a post. It's really great. I take everything I read in the Demsm with an acre of the Bonneville Salt Flats - maybe I should cut down to just "a hege grain of salt".

Mark,

You need to ask yourself "Why the e-page?". The NYT just mebbe had a seaking suspicion that Wilson wasn't precisely working from fact. 'Cause, ya know, he wasn't.

Peter UK said...

"I suggest you folks go read some real reporting on the subject instead of just your talking points and innuendo from like minded blogs."

Mark Garrity admits defeat! "I don't have a clue," said Garrity, 49,of no fixed abode," I just repeat what I read in the papers".

markg8 said...

Damn. I stand corrected. I should have known better than to use the Moonie Times as a source. I know Wilson made speeches ridiculing the admin after July 2003. But as you can see the Kerry campaign played no role in cooodinating his charges and he didn't go on the payroll until February the following year.

markg8 said...

Why the e-page? Because he was an outside contributor and a prominent at that. Do you think they have should have hired him as a reporter first? If you guys are going to stop using op-eds as a source you're not going to have much to go on. I mean c'mon this space is one big op-ed page.

markg8 said...

Petey I hope you're not annoying that guy in Antioch. I don't even know who he is.

Peter UK said...

No I just informed him someone is using his identity.

Anonymous said...

Here's the real dilemma I think. The SP and Court tried to accommodate the press to get around their claim of a right to protect their sources, but Libby has a right under the 6th Amendment to fully defend himself and cannot be bound to the same restrictions Fitz was.

I agree that the accommodation limited the SP's inquiry, but I am not sure in accepting this accommodation as a means of avoiding a bigger issue, anyone took it no account the fact that it would not be sufficient if the case actually came to trial.

markg8 said...

I'm curious Petey what was his response?

Syl said...

Peter

Mark admits defeat

Yeah but lack of knowledge has never stopped him before.

Or much of anyone on the left. I mean even if they read a debunking of something they pretend they didn't see it and go to another blog and post the same damn thing that got debunked already.

Someone just posted a long tirade about Niger at another blog and demanded Bush admit his mistakes and resign. LOL

Not one sentence in his Niger/Wilson tirade had even a grain of truth in it.

It's really pathetic.

Peter UK said...

Syl,
Here are a couple of comments that Mark Garrity left at Needlenose
He is just a standard political activist out to make as much trouble as possible.As you can see he is fully aware that this could backfire on the Democrats as did the Vietnam issue in the last election.

terrye said...

Not only did Wilson work for Kerry, he also worked for Gore back in 2000. In fact he had a relationship with Al Gore that went back to 1985.

It is also true that Tenet was a buddy of Gore's.

small world doncha think?

Rick Ballard said...

"Will Fitzgerald accomodation tie the hands of Libby's lawyers,or can they subpoena journalists?"

Sorry for the delay in response, Peter, but I had to do a thorough job of studying and researching the Sixth Amendment. After hours of study I believe that I can state conclusively that the answer to your question is "beats the hell out of me".

The legal answer is: "That depends. Thorough research is required and our hourly rates are..."

Peter UK said...

Thanks Rick,
So if I understand this properly,the witnesses for the prosecution may not be questioned about certain areas by Fitzgerald,but they may or may not be questioned in those selfsame areas by the defence.

Will Fitzgerald be allowed to remain in the courtroom whilst the defence covers those areas since he has agreed not to know about them.Will this be applied to anyone others involved in the case?

Will the judge declare a mistrial so he can spend the afternoon reading Lewis Carroll?
You check is in the post,signature to follow.

Anonymous said...

Why do you think Andrea Mitchell tried to change her story? You don't suppose her first statement set Russert up for some brutal cross examination?

topsecretk9 said...

You don't suppose her first statement set Russet up for some brutal cross examination?

Well know her second has set herself up for some too!

Mitchell's backpedal had nothing to do with anything but distancing herself from MEDIA SCORN for speaking the truth, she is merely trying to side step a Judy...she could see that her ,media colleagues were not happy.

terrye said...

It seems to me there is the issue of oepning doors here.

And of course the reporters themselves have opened the door, I don't see how they can avoid discussing it.

The truth is people in power use reporters to go after each other, but in this case it may have backfired. It is just one more reason not to trust a journalist.

markg8 said...

Yeah I wrote that post Petey but as usual you don't get it. It was a year ago right after the election and there was no point in piling on Bush's failure in Iraq and giving him an excuse to blame that failure on his political enemies as he;ls trying to do now. Pragmatically I still feel that way but I can no longer abide the ongoing devestation our presence is bringing to Iraq and the resulting damage it's doing to our fight against Islamist jihadis.

markg8 said...

Why shouldn't Libby's lawyers be able to cross examine reporters? Look these reporters didn't want to testify in the first place. Their jobs depend on access which is almost always doled out off the record, on background by this administration. Even the most innocous statements are "not for attribution". It's gotta be uncomfortable for them being the center of the story instead of covering it. Whichever way it goes their testimony is going to gore somebody's ox and that's going to get reflected in their ratings and readership.

The answer to the question would seem to me to be in the answers Fitzgerald got from Russert,
Cooper et al. I guess Libby's lawyers don't consider them friendly witnesses. Therefore it's their job to impugn those witnesses. I doubt the reporters want to go thru a week of public recitations of every unkind comment, boneheaded prediction, and misstatement they've ever made intended to prove they're partisan enemies of Scooter Libby with reasons to lie about his behavior.

Peter UK said...

Mook,
Of course I understand,you are a fairly simple organism,circumstances have changed, your party has decided that the only way for them the win is force a withdrawal and declare a defeat.
I have wiped better principles than yours off my shoes.

Peter UK said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
markg8 said...

Petey apparently any principles you had oozed down your pantleg in a moist clump onto your shoes on 9/11. BTW hat tip to Hunter at Kos for that little insult. It was so good I couldn't resist borrowing it. Why don't you tell him? Maybe he'll sue me.

And I don't want Republicans out of office simply because I hate George Bush. It's because they so irrationally hate the federal government they'll do anything to destroy it. "Shrink it to a size so we can drown it in the bathtub" is how Grover Norquist put it. And if that includes wrecking our international relations, breaking campaign laws, or bankrupting the nation they'll do it.

Peter UK said...

Mookie,
Why does a 49 year old hang about with the bunch of kids at Kos picking up pathetic playground insults.Same thing with the comic book Yellow Elephant,why are you obsessed with young people?

markg8 said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
markg8 said...

What a stupid preconception. Ever been to either one? There's people of all ages at both sites sonny. Hell Kos is a US Army veteran who served in the 1980s. Quite a number of Vietnam vets at Yellow Elephant. Jesus' General JC Christian the originator of the OYE idea himself has college age daughters. He's seen what this war did to some of their old boyfriends firsthand. I go to lot of sites but at KOS and OYE, they're not all children but they're all good kids.

Peter UK said...

General JC Christian Ha Ha ha ha!That is adult? Grow up little man.

Peter UK said...

For those who are curious as to which comics Mook reads General JC Christian Founder of Yellow Elephant,if this isn't shilling for kids,I don't know what is.

Peter UK said...

"Hell Kos is a US Army veteran who served in the 1980s."

Yes Kos was in the artillery in Germany,what we call the "long range snipers",a really cushy billet.

I think the term veteran is usually reserved for those that have been in combat,at least it is here.SAves embarrassment.

Interesting that you regard Vietnam veterans posting at Kos as a virtue, what changed your view since the 1970s ? They were baby killers then.
What a hypocrite.

Peter UK said...

Mook,
Here is the brave little man himself..he doesn't even exist...49 you say?

I use a pseudonym because I've had my life threatened by milita types. They did not find Gen. JC Christian very humorous when I created him on usenet 8 or so years ago. Patriotboy is my name on the web. Even when I play characters, I make no secret that it's patriotboy behind it. My Dirk Steele pseudonym was a mistake. I made a joke with the creator of TAS and he went with it. I wanted to post as patriotboy there, too. I could have insisted on changing it but since my byline links to my blog, patriotboy.blogspot.com, I didn't think it mattered."

Of Dear,back to Captain Marvel

Peter UK said...

Googling Dirk Steele is quite informative,Patriotboy is a gamer,making up imaginary characters who live out fictitious lives.

This seems to be where the name came from

markg8 said...

With all due respect Petey what do you know? Evidently not much. Let me give you a little of my family history.

My mother's father was a West Point
graduate. Mom was born in the Panama Canal zone where her parents were stationed in 1928. Grandpa served in the US Army until he retired.

My Uncle Harry, her brother, God rest his soul almost lost his feet to gangrene marching to Bastogne with Patton. He was an an Airborne Ranger. He then went on to help liberate the death camps. He almost died again during the Tet offensive in Saigon.

My father's father worked two shifts, 16 hours a day, in a factory during that war so your men would have weapons to fight with. I have other family members who worked two shifts in food processing plants so your grandparents would have something to eat.

My father spent 3-1/2 years as a flight engineer/top turret gunner on a B-24 over shark infested waters in the Pacific during WW11, hoping like hell that the navigator had done his calculations correctly and they'd find their way back to the flyspeck island base before the fuel ran out when they went out on missions. He would have much preferred going to the University of Illinois as the first person in his family to attend college on that football scholarship he earned. That had to wait til he got back.

His brother Keith served in the army
in the Korean war.

My younger brother spent 3 years in Germany in the 1970s, handing out basketballs in a gym where in case of war he would have jumped in a jeep with a driver and a stinger missile he had fired live exactly once to be Hind and Mig bait in No Man's land in the Fulda Gap.

I could go on all the way back to the Revolution where one of my ancestors hiked across the Green Mountains of Vermont in his street clothes to kill your kind in your bright red stupid uniforms from behind a tree with his rifle. We called them Minutemen. This kind of behavior today is categorized by the Bush administration as terrorism. Our Minutemen today would be classified as enemy combatants by Bush and subject to torture.

Petey my kind have been cleaning up after your kind for at least the last 80 years. You Europeans threw two big wars on your continent in the last century. You didn't get Versailles right. You didn't do anything about Hitler until it was too late. And now you want us to throw away what we accomplished with the Nuremburg Accords and Geneva Convention after all that bloodshed.

In words you'll understand, sod off.

markg8 said...

I'm starting to think you're mentally deficient Petey. Anybody who wouldn't think JC Christian is a non de plume from the gitgo is just plain stupid.

Oh BTW his website was awarded the Koufax award for Most Humorous Blog in 2004. Say what you want but that's more than you can say for any of your efforts.

Peter UK said...

Intersting about your family Mook,no different to millions of others,the sad part is the miserable failure at the end of it all you.

Christian's alias has an alias of its own Patriotboy,he also assumes other characters Dirk Steele and role plays.Essential you are following someone you haven't got a clue as to his identity,who could just be playing a role,not smart for a grown man.
Primarily though an anoymous blogger is leading a political campaign to get yound people killed,the man is too cowardly to do this upfront on the hustings.
I shall leave you as you left me with a salute, depart in a copulating mode

Peter UK said...

February 23, 2005 October is Koufax Pledge Drive month
2004 Koufax Award Winners

The time has finally come to announce the winners of the 2004 Koufax Awards.

Congratulations are in order not only for the winners but also for each of the Nominees and Finalists. Many people commented on the difficulty of choosing among the entries. Every category had a number of people deserving of the award.

The Koufax Awards are intended to help forge a sense of community among lefty bloggers and their readership. We hope make introductions of bloggers to each other and to readers. We also hope to create a sense that we all live in the same virtual neighborhood and that it is a very nice neighborhood indeed.

Peter UK said...

Another little niggle.it is not non de plume which is basically not the feathers,the word you were scabbling about for was Nom De Plume,name of the pen,going back to the age of the quill pen.
You need to find out who patriotboy is might just be a Syrian intelligence officer.

markg8 said...

I'm gonna go look up the term "twit" in the dictonary Petey, I want to know what you look like, I'm sure your photo is there as a prime example.

markg8 said...

Maybe you don't understand little fascist why he writes under an alias but you ought to, as you've already tried to post my name and address on the internet to intimidate me.

Seeing as you have these inclinations
why not join the army and go to Iraq? You can practice your disgusting ways there pretty much with impunity if you get in the right unit.

markg8 said...

"Intersting about your family Mook,no different to millions of others"

By your deafening silence on the matter quite a bit different than your family's contribution. It's not too late for you to change that is it, Petey? Duty to God and Queen await at your nearest recruiting office.

Here's a little story for you. I hear it's true. Ethan Allen, one of our Revolutionary War heroes. went over to England sometime after the war ended. Some Brits, still smarting from their defeat hung a picture of George Washington in his outhouse. Allen came out beaming which perplexed the smirking Englishmen. When asked if he'd seen the picture in the outhouse he said he thought it a perfectly appropriate place for it, there's nothing that makes an Englishman shit faster than the sight of General George Washington.

Peter UK said...

Mookie,
Your family's contributions are not yours,you seem to be doing nothing bu living on reflected glory.You seem awfully, good little man, at letting others fight your battles then claiming credit.

Sadly for you George Washington was English,your ancestors probably did not arrive in America for another couple of hundred years.Although.how do we know they even existed? Your General Custard doesn't.For all you know his real name might be Musab abu Zarqawi,not that that would matter to someone of your principles.As long as my country loses eh?

markg8 said...

LOL I expect you'll just be smashing at the keyboard randomly soon. Custer didn't exist? Somebody ought to tell the National Park Service, they have a whole site complete with museum commemorating the Battle of Little Big Horn. I've stood on the hill where he met his demise.

Actually on my mother's side my Aunt Lenore (Harry's widow) has traced our lineage in this country back to the Mayflower. We're supposedly distantly related to the Bush's and Governor Clinton of NY (no relation to Bill as far I know). I claim nothing from this, God knows even many of Bush's cousins disavowed him
before the last election, if you trace your lineage back far enough we're all probably related to some
halfassed prince of one time or another.

On my Dad's side my cousin has traced our heritage to 1850 when my English cousins starved my Irish ancestors out of Ireland and great, great, great grandfather Peter (yes, Peter) landed at New Orleans and settled in Indiana.

markg8 said...

Oh and Petey I've offered up my family's contribution in the last century to my nation's defense. Your response? Insults. Why don't you play along instead of unilaterally
surrendering the game?

You could at least tell us of your anal cyst or your father's bad back that's kept you and yours from doing the same couldn't you?

Christ I thought every Englishman of your generation lost a great uncle or great grandfather at the Somme or in Flanders' Fields. Surely you have such a story, ask your mom, unless of course, you're not English.

Peter UK said...

Custard you nitwit, as in yellow.

So all that lineage,such as it is,and it ends up with a nobody like you,Isn't evolution wonderful?

markg8 said...

What does a ficticious General Custard have to do with anything Petey? Try to keep to the subject.

Now I ask once again, what have you or anyone in your family done to defend your nation Sir Black Kettle?

Peter UK said...

General JC Custard,the yellow belly traitor.You really remedial.

Peter UK said...

Now I ask once again, what have YOU done to defend YOUR nation?

markg8 said...

Why not just use his name, General JC Christian instead of some farflung witticism? Your meanderings would be ever so much more clever if you were a little more lucid.

And I assure the real person behind his blog exists, just as I'm sure there's a person behind the nick peter uk.

Strangely though, you're so concerned about others' identities, locations, addresses and yet haved revealed nothing about yourself. For all anyone knows you could be Zarqawi. Ali akbar all in free! Who are you Petey? An Al Qaeda operative
sent to sap the will of the infidels by making irrational arguments in support of torture and other disasters that damage the Coalition's cause?

Peter UK said...

Because,General J C Christian is the pseudonym of Patriotboy,which is the pseudonym of someone who makes up imaginary lives for babbling hydrocephalic cretins such as yourself to believe in.
Do make up your own posts,and try and apply some logic,someone on the otherside would be supporting the terroristts,much as you do.Not the coalition.

markg8 said...

Nah Petey I think torture cells and rape rooms are bad, whoever's running them. And you? Like I said those principles oozed down your leg, not when you saw General Washington, but when you saw the twin towers burning.

You're willing to throw away civilization to protect it from barbarians. What's wrong with that picture?

Peter UK said...

Mark
Those are the methods of your side,Any principles you might have inherited trickled down your fathers leg.

markg8 said...

So Petey you are a member of the coalition? What part do you play? Ya know, besides trying to ferret out the identity of others you dislike on the internet?

Peter UK said...

Mookie, I don't hate you,I am studying you,I am as fond of you as anyone is of their lab rat, running around in its little wheel in Medford.
We just have to cure you of this nasty habit of bullying young people under the guise of liberal politics.

Peter UK said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
markg8 said...

Ok then you go make patriotic appeals to young Repubs to get them to join the US Army. Coming from you they might listen a little closer. Unless of course you really don't believe in the cause in Iraq.

Peter UK said...

Mook,
No you are not, you are just a little thug who needs a whipping boy to relieve the frustrations of his miserable life,it would be more impressive if those at # 31 volunteered,lead by example,drive out there and keep the troops cool with some icecream.
Do remember it is you that is against the war,I know you get confused easily,but that is what you were proud of from the Vietnam war.

markg8 said...

Do remember as well it is you who is FOR the war. I invite you to help recruit soldiers to fight it. I try to shame the young adults who aspire to become dirty trickster scum like Karl Rove, Lee Atwater, and Grover Norquist to serve. You OTH can make heartfelt jingoistic arguments to them. It's your war pal, you wanted it and still do. You believe in the leadership and believe in their ability to attain their goals. Put up or shut up. Now's the time.

If you don't even try, don't come crying to me when Blair starts drawing down next year and Basra becomes a no-go zone for Westerners for years to come.

Because I'm doing what I can to keep US troop levels up.

Peter UK said...

" don't come crying to me when Blair starts drawing down next year and Basra becomes a no-go zone for Westerners for years to come."

Why should anyone want your opinion on anything,other than central heating,and that is doubtful? You are a pathetic nonentity with an ego problem,you really are ridiculous,except for this peculiar fixation with young people.You come over more Ted Bundy than Paul Revere,it's unhealthy

Make your mind up either you want the war to end or you want to send more troops.

markg8 said...

I want the next generation of Bushs, Roves, Cheneys, Norquists, Rusmfelds, Atwaters, to see what combat is like. None of the above did and none of them learned anything from Vietnam.

Bush even expressed the opinion in 1999 that if he became president a lovely little war would be just the ticket to give him the political capital he needed to get the rest of his agenda passed in congress and be successful.

Peter UK said...

"I want the next generation of Bushs, Roves, Cheneys, Norquists, Rusmfelds, Atwaters, to see what combat is like. None of the above did and none of them learned anything from Vietnam."

You know what combat is like Mookie,do you,did you gain your experience in Vietnam,like Bill Clinton and Hillary?

markg8 said...

Sir Black Kettle give it up. I've no more served in combat than you. I don't need to, I know what it does to people firsthand.

There's a big difference between Bill Clinton and George Bush. They both looked at the same intelligence (in Bush's case some of it was already 11 years old, hardly up to date) and Clinton decided not to invade Iraq and embroil our countries in an ill concieved and totally mismanaged quagmire and turn a major Arab country into a terrorist training ground.

Bush not only rushed off to war he likes Iraq the way it is. Well I got news for ya sonny, right now in the US Senate Republicans, desperate to hang onto their phony baloney jobs are debating a bill that will force the president to lay down benchmarks for withdrawal and inform the Iraqis they have to take over their own security cuz we're bringing our troops home.

So if you want to stick it out and cheer on your boys from behind your keyboard hoping they kill every Iraqi man, woman and child who hates the US and UK, you and Tony Blair may have to do it alone.

Peter UK said...

"I've no more served in combat than you. I don't need to, I know what it does to people firsthand."

If you have no experience of combat,how can your knowledge be firsthand? By definition it is second hand.


The difference between Bush and Clinton was,when the Vietnam war was on, Clinton,that boy be gone,hiding his sorry ass in England.

This is a classic piece of Mookian Gibberish
"an ill concieved and totally mismanaged quagmire and turn a major Arab country into a terrorist training ground."

One.Is there such a thing as a "well conceived well managed quagmire?"

Two.Which Arab countries were not terrorist training grounds?
You can use an atlas and crayons,and for the sake of this question you can make the Iranians honourary Arabs.

markg8 said...

Forget it Petey, if they worship Allah they terrorists in your eyes. You're hopeless.

Peter UK said...

bin Laden -Saudi
Zarqawi -Jordanian
Abu Nidal- Palestinian
Cole bombed in the Yemen.

Continue for yourself then just spew your usual syllogism.Note there was no reference to religion,what's with you you some kind Islamophobe?
Don't worry Mookie you are a cretin,that means you are never wrong

markg8 said...

OK I stand corrected. You're a racist.

Peter UK said...

Yes you usually do.
You are the racist who bragged about the the Democratic demographic of Blacks and Hispanics,who wants to keep Democrats out of the military.
You are the racist who wants to put even more young white Republicans in the military.
Is Markg8, Saddam's little helper, doing some ethnic cleansing for the cause?

markg8 said...

Nope like any sensible person I can see a waste of taxpayer dollars when I see it. The members of these demographic groups have self selected themselves as supporters or not of the current president and his policies. It stands to reason that those who believe in him and his policies are morely likely to make such a serious sacrifice. If they're not then they really don't care that much about spreading democracy, fighting Islamofacism or whatever this week's justifaction is. On the other side no amount of gold is going to convince kids who see this as a possibly fatal fool's errand that it's worthwhile.

What's your excuse Petey? Why don't you go?

Peter UK said...

But of course Republicans are over represented in the military it is greasy old lard assed left wing farts like yourself who have been running ever since the seventies,hiding your cowardice behind your fake anti-war principles."Hell no you ain't never goin' to go".
Odd logic though,you whine about wasting taxpayers money at the same time wanting to increase expenditure by increasing military strength.
Hey,they have airconditioning in Iraq,get one over on Halliburton,corner the market,get your van out there now!