Tuesday, April 04, 2006
According to my ancient Webster's to extort is to get [money, etc.] by violence, threats, misuse of authority, etc.; exact or wrest [from]...and that is exactly what some socalled leaders in Congress and elsewhere are doing with their threats to launch a third party ticket in 2008 over the issue of illegal immigration. The my way or the highway club who feel that anything short of a prison term or mass deportation or both for illegal aliens [who are after all breaking the law] and stiff penalties for the treasonous scum who hire them [who are after all breaking the law] is just an invitation to an all out invasion of rapists, murderers and drug dealers. And of course there is the wall, it can not be virtual, it has to be real and it has to rival the Great Wall of China. After all, the only thing they were worried about was invading barbarian hordes. And they thought they had problems.

Debate? We don't need no stinkin debate.

Well this oped from Dick Morris makes an interesting point:

On July 2, the Mexican people will decide whether to elect ultra-leftist Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador (known as AMLO) as their next president.

Rumors have abounded for months that Lopez Obrador's campaign is getting major funding from Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. And last month Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-Ariz)., a moderate Republican, told several Mexican legislators that he had intelligence reports detailing revealing support from Hugo Chavez to AMLO's Party of the Democratic Revolution (PRD).

Chavez is a firm ally of Cuba's Fidel Castro. Lopez Obrador could be the final piece in their grand plan to bring the United States to its knees before the newly resurgent Latin left.

Needless to say the Mexican left is making much of the supposed racism of the American people.

When Ross Perot helped Clinton gain the White House with 43% of the vote I really thought the angry white male had learned his lesson. Maybe not. Maybe this time he will give us a Communist in Mexico and a Democratic President. Way to go Tancredo!

Between them, Venezuela and Mexico export about 4 million barrels of oil each day to the United States, more than one-third of our oil imports. With both countries in the hands of leftist leaders, the opportunity to hold the U.S. hostage will be extraordinary.

I hope that the House and the Senate can come up with a compromise bill and Bush signs it. And I hope that the right wing of the Republican party does not do its party what the left wing has done to the Democratic Party.

We need some good old fashioned common sense.


Syl said...

And the Right calls the Left selfish. ::eye roll::

If I don't get my way, screw America. That's what these third-party threats sound like to me.

terrye said...

me too.

Skookumchuk said...

Lopez Obrador has led, or been close to leading, most polls taken over the past two years. There is very little about him in English in the MSM, but his election would be a return to authoritarian Latin populism of the Juan Peron in Argentina variety. Not good.

While we shouldn't do anything to increase his chances of winning, the truth is that he will probably win anyway. And a win by this guy will make all our current troubles seem like nothing.

. . . always happy to chime in. :-)

Knucklehead said...

I think you you have it basically correct re: angry white males and Perot but this round 'em up and toss 'em in the Rio Grande phenomenon seems to have cross demographic appeal.

I'm beginning to believe that we (some large portion of the collective us) is looking for some issue to get all kick ass about. And we're just going to keep at issues until we find one that sticks. We just want to get downright nasty with somebody, for some reason, and we don't much care what the result will be.

I'm also discovering that matters I had assumed were completely common knowledge among educated people, especially those who seemed to make a point of paying attention, are nothing of the sort.

I've asked, and heard asked, the question, "Well, what about the illegals who have citizen children?" and am discovering that it doesn't appear to be all that commonly known that people born on US soil are US citizens. I thought everyone knew that.

I'm also discovering that some people don't realize illegals would have access to some level of due process (we don't just toss 'em in an INS van and drop 'em at the border). Mentioning that there would be untold numbers of court cases that would bring things to a screeching halt leaves people with a perplexed expression on their faces - and these are people who know all about the local nutbars having fits about creches on the town hall lawn. Somehow they don't realize that the ACLU is licking its chops over the potential to file a few million briefs on behalf of illegals.

They really are living with some delusion that some act of congress would be the equivalent of Captain Piccard saying, "Make it so, Number One!"

I find it astonishing. My wife mentioned the 200,000 buses schtick to somebody the other day and got back, "Why would we need buses?" And that was from an extraordinarily intelligent person. "Well, how ya gonna get 'em down to the Rio Grande to toss 'em in?"

And that's without even getting to having a couple hundred thousand Bernie Fockers lying down in front of the buses with Babs and the Baldwin Bros handing out little Mexican-flag colored lapel ribbons. They just have no idea of the can of worms they are demanding we open.

Rick Ballard said...


That's why bombing Qum flatter than a pancake is going to be a political winner. It's that quaint Jacksonian American quirk - "war to the knife, knife to the hilt". The mullahs ought to watch more Westerns. It might save some of them.

The next third party will be created when the Dems shove the libs off the train. They are going nowhere until they do so and trying to suck a few more dollars out of Soros and his ilk isn't proving to be the success that was hoped for.

truepeers said...

To this distant observer, it seems as if this is a damned if you do, damned if you don't for the Reps. Terrye is surely right about a backlash to deportation talk. But if the present migration continues, surely it is also a nightmare for the Republicans - the creation of huge client class for Democrat welfare state race baiters. I'm sure some Mexicans won't buy into that game, but if you look at the nature of the corrupt state in Mexico, one would have to guess many will go for an anti-Gringo party.

When you're damned either way, you're free to do the right thing.

Knucklehead said...


I don't think this a right-left issue. I'm not defending either side of the aisle in congress, but I'm not detecting the split among the citizenry lining up right-left, conservative-liberal or whatever on this.

Buchananites are dancing with pinkos. Ordinary moonbats are lining up with ordinary social conservatives.

This is a different phenomenon than I can recall seeing before. It is almost as if people who wouldn't ordinarily agree on much of anything are desperately looking for something to join hands about and make some united plea for a demagogue to step forward and lead us to some sort of common pain or something.

Instead of running from the idea of swallowing ipecac they're begging for some Dark Knight on a Black Charger to ride up with a tanker of the stuff and start pumping it down their throats.

ex-democrat said...

of course McKinney "is making much of the supposed racism of the American people" too. i'm not complaining though, as that woulkd just show me to be an angry white male!

terrye said...


That might be true but right now it is the pissy Republicans talking about Operation Wetback, most Democrats just seem to be sitting back and watching the fun.

Truepeers, in the last election 44% of the hispanics in this country voted for Republicans. They live in the same world we do.... they do not have their own party. There is the La Raza thing, but they mostly vote Democrat and know they are fighting a losing battle anyway. But a little hate might help them out.

And no one is saying we should just open the border and scream 'come on in'. This not damn is you do damn if you don't...it is just stupid.

Give the people doing the loudest yelling what they want and they will start seeing women and childen loaded on buses at gunpoint, class action lawsuits on behalf of citizen children sent over the border with their parents, people getting shot, etc and reality will hit home.

That is why the powers that be need to come up with something that will stop the stupidity.

terrye said...


That woman is insane.

terrye said...

btw, that whole angry white male things was tongue in cheek. I love angry white males, really I do. I sleep with one every night.

ex-democrat said...


truepeers said...

Terrye, maybe i am undluly ignorant, but i imagine if i'm looking at this from what i imagine to be a partisan Republican point of view, and not a humanitarian one, i can't take a lot of comfort in your stat that in the last election 44% of the hispanics voted for Republicans.

Hispanic means what? Spanish speaker? Spanish ancestry? From Latin AMerica? Latin America is a place with many important social differences, including a pretty fundamental racism that distinguishes whites from mestizos and indians. It is not exactly Latin. As a Republican strategist, i would not bank on impoverished Mexicans voting - when legalized - like many of those "Hispanics" voting now: Miami Cubans, or Puerto Ricans or legal or long-time Mexican Americans (who, as i understand it, are notably less Indian in their identity than the average Mexican).

The average aboriginal or mestizo Mexican does not strike me as a natural Republican voter and Mexican politics would seem to confirm this. Of course, I don't discount the power of the melting pot, but it surely doesn't work as well when people settle in areas that are predominantly Mexican.

terrye said...


Our southwest was populated by hispanics before the American Civil War so I mean hispanic, as in hispanic. Many of them tend to be Catholic and conservative and hardworking. In fact my brother [who is in Oklahoma] said he was currently keeping track of the Catholic Churches in town to ascertain how many hispanics there are moving in. Our Attorney General is hispanic. {according to the last census there are only 1220 hispanics in my home town. I think Mickey can stop panicking}

In 1996, Bob Dole got 21% of the hispanic vote, in 2004 George Bush got 44% of the vote.

There are ofcourse the Cubans who speak Spanish, but since they are running from Castro people kind of overlook it when they show up a little less than legal.

If Republicans make targetting these people a partisan issue, they will not just lose them...they will lose a lot of other people as well. Ever heard of the Know Nothing party? Look it up.

Point is we can and should deal with the issue without being quite so ugly about the whole thing.

MeaninglessHotAir said...

I think there are some odd subterranean currents flowing these days and this particular brouhaha is just one visible sign of it. I chatted with a businessman from Montreal today who pointed out to me that we live in a wondrous age, we have more things than we ever imagined when we were kids, our economy is good, our life expectancy is at a record high--why all the complaining? Yet there's definitely a feeling of malaise all over the place. A real urge toward isolationism. Just pull back the troops, kick out los mexicanos and pull up the drawbridges and all will be well. You have singled out the white Republicans but I don't think it's limited to that. I think this new urge toward isolationism, if that's all it is, is popping out in different ways all over the political spectrum. Much of the oppos ition to the war in Iraq is of the same nature. So is the anti-globalization movement. All part and parcel of the same phenomenon. Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Knucklehead is right.

truepeers said...

MHA, maybe the isolationism is a defensive reaction from fear that too much globalization in the economy is destroying the basis for republican politics at home: a sense of belonging to a self-ruling nation, a people who share a common covenant. Those who remain confident about their nation (in a way somewhat different from being a jingo nationalist) are perhaps less isolationist, on the whole. It seems to me, watching the US, that the fear of Mexian immigration is the fear that the culture of republicanism will be lost once a certain tipping point is reached in favor of people more inclined to seek out patron-client relationships with political elites.

Many American institutions like the military do a very good job of integrating newcomers. But Mexican nationalism and aboriginal identity is something very strong (for both positive and negative - Mexican racism - reasons) that won't melt away easily when it is transplanted in large numbers. I've spent a fair bit of time in Mexico. There are many differences, regionally, but especially between the cities and countryside where the indian cultures are strong and to call the people Hispanic, or even Catholic, seems to me to beg the question of whether these categories are simply a way of ignoring real differences, kind of like the category of Mexican itself.

terrye said...


Yes, I know wht you mean, but most of the people who are talking about nuking Mecca and Operation Wetback are people who will seem to want the world to know they are white, and Christian, etc.

There is an assertion and a challenge to it that is obvious. There is also a mean spiritedness.

Knucklehead said...

Terrye & MHA,

A lot of various sorts of somewhat controlled anxieties seem to be getting the better of a lot of people lately.

Re: the "white and christian" thing... At the risk of seeming an apologist for this (I offer it as explanation, not excuse) and despite the claims to the contrary, that "demogrpahic" has felt itself under pressure for some time now. Political Correctness, the Race and Identity Industry, has always had a target "enemy" as well as various constituencies.

I think White Bread - caucasian Christian - Americans are reaching a bit of exhaustion re: the introspection and self-improvement game and are looking out at the world and deciding to be more assertive which, in this day and age, means loud and proud. Everybody has a "culture" and everybody defends it from the rooftops and the general overtone from all aspects of public discussion has been White Folk Bad, Christians Bad, Everyone Else Good. So some of what we're seeing regardless of whether it seems childish and somewhat ugly, is blowback - people deciding that White & Christian is Good and determined to stand up for their "culture", loudly and proudly, just like every other hyphenated whatever running around these days.

Perhaps the divide and conquer Politics of Identity and Race Baiting crowd has finally accomplished the task of cutting the "silent majority" out of the herd and leading them to the Great Watering Hole of Identity Politics.

The isolationism trends are, simplisticly put, "stop the world I wanna get off!" reactions. The problems around the world are developing (or being noticed anyway) more quickly than the average bear can tuck them away and ponder them. Europe has gone nuts, Russia has become a big mafia, the Chinese are going to swamp us economically, the Indians are coming, Africa is in flames, Canada is one big Marxist College Town, Mexicans are streaming across the borders, and South America seems to want Che Redux.

The fact that none of this started yesterday and straight line extrapolation is useless as a future predictor, and that only way forward is to muddle through DEALING with all this rather than trying to HIDE from it all is beyond them. They just want the noise and yelling to stop. They want to go back to the decade of no history, no worries.

We've always had a lot of isolationism in the US population. Screw the world, let it burn, we've got plenty of farmland and forests behind these oceans, let's mind our own knitting and keep a wary eye on the horizon and if they show up here we'll deal with them then but they'll probably kill one another off before that can happen.

Before anyone here clobbers me about it, I am not an isolationist. I don't think we can hide from the world. I think somebody has to do some leading, the US has the capability, and I'd prefer our bungling muddle-through than being subjected to the quasi-political-religious zealotries of the opportunistic murdering mafias all carried out under the supportive, gregorian chanting of the sniffling Marxist elites.

terrye said...


I won't clobber you, in fact I agree with you in large part.

But a lot of hispanics are Christians too. In fact you are a lot more likely to be told not to have a nativity scene in public in an upper middle class white neighborhood in San Francisco than you ever would in some Latino neighborhood.

Skookumchuk said...


In fact you are a lot more likely to be told not to have a nativity scene in public in an upper middle class white neighborhood in San Francisco than you ever would in some Latino neighborhood.

Yup. Then there is the whole patriotism and military service angle. The whole La Raza nonsense aside, Hispanics tend to volunteer for combat duty and are over-represented in the casualty rates. Very much a "traditional American values" culture in many ways. I think GWB is very conscious of this and doesn't want to blow it, not only with the 44% who voted for him last time but also the other 10-20% sitting on the fence.

Rick Ballard said...


Hispanic latte lapper just doesn't resonate, does it?