One submarine

Sunday, July 16, 2006
Luther makes the following point in comments to Seneca's Arab FM's Hold Emergency Summit post below:

I'm sorry, I don't see what everyone is afraid of re: Iran.

We could, truly, severely crimp their lifestyle in about 36 hours. 72+ if we have too move a few CAG's into position.

All it would take is political will. That is what all of this would take. Fewer words more action. The world would be a better place in the end.

10:53 PM, July 15, 2006

One of our submarines could cripple Iran's ability to cause much trouble in the region for a long time to come. The truth is our military has an arsenal that could completely destroy the region in far less time than was required for the removal of Saddam. But we do not use that capacity. Why? Is it guilt over Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Do we look back in horror at the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden and say to ourselves, never again?

I am not just talking about nuclear weapons or chemical agents. I am referring to the overwhelming use of conventional weapons in an unrestrained fashion, the likes of which we have not seen in years. Some folks say we have evolved beyond this, but is it evolution or is it our own self imposed sense of right and wrong? Do we say to ourselves, Americans don't do things like that.

And at what point do we begin to cross that line? Forget going midieval on the terrorists, at what point will our frustration and disgust make us go WW2 on them? I think it is safe to say that if the US had a military in 1941 even close to the one we have today, there might well not have been an attack on Pearl Harbor. The Japanese were not that stupid {but they were fanatical}, and we were not that concerned with anything other than defeating the enemy. Every thing else came after that simple consideration. Will we ever look at things that way again? Will we even be able to decide exactly who the enemy is?

I am not as willing as the guys at Power Line to see the current crisis in the Middle East grow into a full fledged regional war with Israel leading the way, but then again I understand the desire to just finish this, once and for all. I can feel it myself sometimes when I hear that the fanatics in Iran are ranting about the 12th Imam while they send people into Iraq and Lebanon and Syria trying their best to make a difficult situation more difficult.

I think of that and I think of what one submarine could do to their little empire and a part of me just says, enough already. Finish this.

What happens if more and more of us begin to feel that way more and more of the time? Will we destroy Iran? Or are those days of unrestrained fury behind us? Is this the age of proportianate response?

Tit for Tat and so on and so forth forever. Victory no longer exists, only levels of acceptable and unacceptable loss.


Luther McLeod said...

Let me clarify one thing. I was/am not calling for the total destruction of Iran.

I should have added the work "mullah" to the crimp their lifestyle sentence.

Precisely targeted, conventional weapons, military and infrastructure only. Relentlessly, until they are not a threat to anyone, now or in future.

Just get it over.

terrye said...

Luther, I think I know what you meant. But it got me to thinking of how seldom we really talk about doing just that, getting it over.

We hear people say that the US is bogged down in Iraq and can't fight a war and I think to myself, do these people really know what our military is capable of? Or have we lived in a era where 2,000 casualties are considered high number for so long that our military is an anachronism?

Luther McLeod said...

I know Terrye, I just wanted to clarify my ambiguous language.

There have been many good discussions here at Flares on the pros and cons of using our military to its fullest capabilities. I believe most ended without consensus.

But your larger point is certainly correct. The issue is never broached by the larger MSM, subsequently it is never debated in public discourse. It just seems too be held as a given that we can never again use our full might. And in that sense you are again correct, in some ways "our military is an anachronism".

I believe most folks in this country still consider that only an all out war, with China for example, would be justification for unleashing the full capabilities of our military.

We all know the political repercussions, domestically and internationally, that would follow an implemented policy of militarily solving the problems we face in the Middle East. It just seems too me that those repercussions are being overshadowed and made a lesser worry by the dangers we face if our current situation is left to continue status quo.

To end with a simplistic and non PC analogy. Sometimes when dealing with a two year old, you have to give them a good slap on the a** to get their attention and let them know who is in charge. I think we have reached that point in the ME.

No, I don't have kids, but I have helped raise a few.

MeaninglessHotAir said...

We live in a world in which approximately 40% of our compatriots—more in Canada and Australia, and many more in Europe—have convinced themselves that the military is unnecessary and an anachronism. The sooner we unilaterally disband the better. They feel this way because they live in a world entirely disconnected from the need to defend themselves.

Syl said...

I still go back to the realities of chaos theory. Introduce chaos into a complex system and order results. Introduce order and chaos results.

All that really says is that whatever is done, the consequences aren't necessarily what we perceive them to be.

We introduced chaos into the M.E. by removing Saddam from power. Order hasn't resulted.

Seems to me we simply haven't introduced enough chaos yet.

Luther McLeod said...

You are correct MHA. The disconnect is huge and growing I fear. I do not know what will change the momentum. I'm not sure anymore if even a large attack would do the trick. It's like freedom just fell out of the GD sky.

And thanks by the way for answering my question way below re: cynicism. I did not realize you were going all "meta-narrative" on me :-)

Well Syl, I guess it depends where one is sitting as to whether its chaos or order. If one were not one of Saddam's cronies, I suspect life was pretty chaotic. And it may well be now. But at least they now can hold to a glimmer of hope that things may get better.

Though the idea of introducing more chaos into the ME has appeal.