Say it ain't so, Joe

Monday, November 07, 2005
Topsecretk9 over at Tom Maguire's Just One Minute found this John Batchelor piece at Red State that assures us that Monday will not be a good day in the Alterman Reality. Generals Paul Vallely and Tom McInerny, both familiar faces to Fox News viewers for their insights into the Battle for Iraq, will be appearing on the John Batchelor show tomorrow evening to discuss conversations that they had in the Fox Green Room with Joseph Wilson in 2002. It seems that Joe was quite proud of his wife's job at the CIA. So much so that he mentioned it more than once.

Anyone following the Libby matter might want to note the year one more time - 2002. Supersecret covert agent Valery Victoria Flame Plame Wilson had a helluva cover story. She must be the Purloined Letter of CIA covert agents. Perhaps Inspector Jo.. er Mr. Fitgerald should have a discussion with Mr. Wilson. After all, Mr. Fitzgerald made it crystal clear in his lengthy if obtuse press conference that disclosure of classified information is a very serious matter. Why, he's spent more than two years trying to find out how our gal Val's name ever got into the press.

Did he ask Joe?

UPDATE:

Joe takes another one.

55 comments:

terrye said...

Were these people ever asked to testify?

Topsecretk9 said...

Hey you Rick....your not supposed to confuse me with new blogs to read now!

David Thomson said...

“Were these people ever asked to testify?”

Probably not. It’s becoming increasingly clearer that Patrick Fitzgerald did a lousy job. He seems to have gone out of his way too prove his “independence” from the White House---and sucking up to the MSM. I was appalled by Fitzgerald’s insistence that few people knew about Valerie Plame’s CIA employment.

Scooter Libby’s case should never go to trial. This is an outrageous injustice. Nonetheless, in the long run the liberal establishment will wish that this nonsense never started. I can’t wait until its leading lights give testimony in a court of law. Let the fun begin.

Rick Ballard said...

Hi TS9,

This blog doesn't require the focus that Tom's does (at least not involving 'our gal Val'). Stop by when you take a break from sleuthing.

Terrye,

While I would not go as far as David does, I would say that Fitzgerald had his head turned by the press from the gitgo. The fact that he does not directly address Plame's actual status beyond "classified" within the indictment leads me to believe that the two heavy duty statutes that were supposed to come into play (according to the drooling left) were actually not broken.

Fitzgerald is now on the tightrope. It appears that the underlying statutes are not applicable and I am unaware of any statutory prohibition on the disclosure of classified information. If there were, Daniel Ellsberg might still be in jail.

From a political rather than legal viewpoint the revelations concerning Joe Wilson effectively complete his destruction. He tried to run with the big dogs (with their encouragement and "support") and now finds that he is a lonely lost puppy. He is completely unworthy of sympathy however, for he is a truly prodigious liar.

flenser said...

I think we can take it as given that the CIA engaged in "dirty tricks" against the White House. The question is, what is to be done about it? The Republicans running the government seem unable or unwilling to take action.

Seneca the Younger said...

... I am unaware of any statutory prohibition on the disclosure of classified information. If there were, Daniel Ellsberg might still be in jail.

Wow, they sure misled me when I signed my clearance papers, then.

Seriously, Ellsberg's prosecution was dropped in the post-Watergate interval because of government misconduct. But Sandy Berger was prosecuted for merely losing classified documents.

ex-democrat said...

rick - are you sure Fitzgerald explicitly describes Plame's status as "classified."? It's a while since I read it, but i remember being struck by a line in the indictment that Plame's identity was "not a matter of common knowledge." As I think I said at the time, that oddly out-of-place term is hardly the same thing.

Syl said...

There are some things I deem important about this:

(1)If Wilson indeed felt no compunction against identifying his wife as CIA it is very likely we can assume journalists also knew it.

(2)Fitzgerald could not himself gather info re journalistic knowledge that mrs. wilson was CIA. He was extremely limited by DOJ rules concerning interrogating journalists.

(3)Libby claimed Russert told him mrs. wilson was CIA. Russert said he said nufink. A transcript has been found wherein Andrea Mitchell admits she knew. And from another transcript from about a week ago where Russert and Andrea were discussing this whole thing, I feel there is some evidence that Russert, when he was questioned by investigators, could NOT remember what he had told Libby.

This gives reasonable doubts concerning Russert's testimony. A huge part of Fitz' case.

(4)And the side benefit is discrediting Wilson as an ego maniac blowhard.

markg8 said...

Yes no matter what the mighty rightwing smear machine must continue. A administration supporter tells a story that can only be corraborated by the teller and the target and here in the echo chamber it bounces off the canyon walls as fact. The prosecutor is in the thrall of the leftwing media! Joe Wilson bragged about his wife being a CIA agent! Free Scooter Libby!

Hey here's one for ya, I saw Val Wilson and Wonkette flashing their boobs in a bar in Georgetown last night! Of course no one else saw it they were all watching the Redskins game.

flenser said...

"I saw Val Wilson and Wonkette flashing their boobs in a bar in Georgetown last night! "

Dog bites man.

ex-democrat said...

oops, our heroic speaker-of-truth-to-power Mark accidentally disqualifies himself from the Libby jury pool: "a story that can only be corraborated (sic) by the teller and the target" simply cannot be found as a fact.

Syl said...

markg8

Are you an anti-globalist too, besides your other fine qualities? Is your name a reference to the G8 summits?

What are your thoughts about a smear machine from one side countering the smear machine from the other? Not fair? He with the biggest smear wins? Or is everyone so smeared that we should just give up and not care which smear wins?

Rick Ballard said...

Seneca,

Oops. My recollection was that Ellsberg hadn't signed an NDA. Signing one does change your status under the law.

ex-dem,

Now that you mention it, I have to reread the damn thing - he does use the term classified but it might have been in the general descriptive sense rather than as a specific regarding Val. Reading that thing makes my head hurt but I'll do it one more time and get back.

Markg8,

I feel your pain, man.

markg8 said...

syl,
The nick comes from an old board I regged at where markgs 1 thru 7 were taken. It just sort of stuck and I'm too lazy to change it.

Am I anti-globalist? No. I sell to all kinds of foreign customers. I like 'em when they pay on time and not so much when they don't though.

What are my thoughts about a smear machine from one side countering the smear machine from the other?

Jeez I don't know indictments on 5 counts don't sound like a smear, they sound like a crime really was committed and prosecuting the cover up is the only way to get at the truth.

"He with the biggest smear wins?"

That seems to be the Rove modus operandi in a nutshell doesn't it?

"Or is everyone so smeared that we should just give up and not care which smear wins?"

That would seem to be the pushback from the beginning. Blow a lot of smoke about Wilson and hope it obscures the facts.

ex democrat,
Who has time to serve on the Libby jury? Not me. I'd never get past Fitzgerald anyway. He'd probably sniff out me or any of you here faster than you can say, "I believe Official A has been totally exonerated by Scooter Libby's indictment" so don't hold your breath.

I think Fitzgerald made that statement about Plame's CIA identity not being common knowledge because of Bob Novak's assertion that it was. I believe it was one of the last aspects of the investigation checked out with the Wilsons' neighbors. Seems odd they'd leave to the last but I guess they got pretty firm denials of that from the CIA.

markg8 said...

Rick,
As much as I'd like to sympathize with
you too I reserve that emotion for the millions of Iraqis who are forced to suffer even worse privations now than they did under Saddam and our dead and wounded soldiers.

Peter UK said...

Markg8
"Yes no matter what the mighty rightwing smear machine must continue. A administration supporter tells a story that can only be corraborated by the teller and the target and here in the echo chamber it bounces off the canyon walls as fact. The prosecutor is in the thrall of the leftwing media! Joe Wilson bragged about his wife being a CIA agent!"

Where on earth do you get you material from,Cliches R Us?

A question,was there an offence before Fitzgerald began his inquiry,is the current offence anything to do with the original object of the inquiry,or is it one created by the inqiry,ie Libby had committed no offence prior to that inquiry\/

Peter UK said...

"As much as I'd like to sympathize with
you too I reserve that emotion for the millions of Iraqis who are forced to suffer even worse privations now than they did under Saddam and our dead and wounded soldiers."

Markg8,
The cliches were bad enough, the non sequiturs are excruciating.
What has this got to do with Libby? I know you want to get all your anti-war,anti-Bush talking points in whether this earns you brownie point with you collective,I know not,but for the sake of continuity try and construct an argument.Don't just throw everything and the kitchen sink merely by word association.

David Thomson said...

Only a fool claims that Iraq is worse after Saddam Hussein has been removed from power. This is all you need to know:

"markg8 of markg8 Kos Dairy"

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/

markg8 said...

was there an offence before Fitzgerald began his inquiry?

Apparently the CIA thought so, that's why they asked for the investigation.

is the current offence anything to do with the original object of the inquiry?

Of course, the investigation established that an offense occurred. Then Libby in response to questioning told a story that didn't match up with the stories told by 3 different reporters and 9 different administration witnesses. In a very poor or deliberate attempt to mislead investigators it is alleged in the indictments he got caught lying to them. It remains to be seen if Fitzgerald will be able to sweat information out of Libby that implicates others or himself further.

If you don't like the way our justice system works don't blame us,
we took it wholesale from the UK.

markg8 said...

Yes David Thomson I am a proud member of Operation Yellow Elephant. We try to get young Republicans to enlist in the US Army to help win the war.

And yes for the majority of Iraqis life is much worse today than it was even under sanctions during the Stalinist thug Hussein's misrule. If you don't believe me go to Baghdad and ask around.

Syl said...

mark

Thanks for explanation re handle.

Now on to this, which I think is extremely important for you to understand:

I think Fitzgerald made that statement about Plame's CIA identity not being common knowledge because of Bob Novak's assertion that it was. I believe it was one of the last aspects of the investigation checked out with the Wilsons' neighbors. Seems odd they'd leave to the last but I guess they got pretty firm denials of that from the CIA.

Valery's neighbors are not journalists.

You are basing your analysis on an assumption that Fitzgerald was able to discern, through his investigation, that the knowledge of Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment was not wideley known, even by reporters.

What you fail to consider is that Fitzgerald's hands were tied on that score because of DOJ rules concerning how much probing of reporters was allowed.

There was no way Fitz could determine that, and his case against Libby is based on incomplete knowledge.

So it is left to others, especially Libby's attorneys, to determine how widely known Valery's CIA employment was among journalists.

Syl said...

mark

Why don't YOU go to baghdad and ask around? That's only fair. Or maybe the picture in the next thread might give you a clue as to the answer.

Peter UK said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Peter UK said...

markg8
The military ia volunteer force,who do you think will volunteer,Republicans ar Democrats? Certainly not Kossacks

ex-democrat said...

last i heard the military is already 80% young(ish) republicans.
perhaps when mark's efforts help that number reach 100% the military will decide not to bother defending the democrat free-loaders at all?

(jeez; you guys have no idea how painful and embarassing it is for those of us with my affliction (see handle) to witness this incessant adolescent tripe.)

Peter UK said...

Ex-Democrat,
They might even go home and clean up.

Peter UK said...

markg8
Are you the best they can do?

Why did not the CIA give Novak the heads up before he mentioned Plame? He has stated that he would have edited her name out.

Sorry to burst your balloon,but Plame was finished as any kind of agent when she said "I do" to Ambassador Wilson,do you think that anybody married to an American Diplomat would not automatically be under sudpicion?

"Of course, the investigation established that an offense occurred. Then Libby in response to questioning told a story that didn't match up with the stories told by 3 different reporters and 9 different administration witnesses."

No! the alleged offence was created in the course of the inqiry,if ever there was a broken tail light ploy this is it.
Three Reporters,all with fish to fry,all hearsay evidence, all of it about whether,who remembered what, He said/She said.
Who are the nine administration witnesses?

Knucklehead said...

Ex-Dem,

The pain of watching what was once your team go off the cliff is deep and severe. It will take a long time for the wound to close and the pain to fade.

Eventually they will no longer be your team gone haywire and simply become the other team - the one you feel the need to do what you can to defeat.

Walk toward the light, don't bother looking back upon the mayhem of the train wreck ;)

Peter UK said...

Ex-Democrat,

jeez; you guys have no idea how painful and embarassing it is for those of us with my affliction (see handle) to witness this incessant adolescent tripe.)

You didn't leave your party,your party left you.Look on it as an old friend who is raveged by a fatal disease,remember it for what it was,not how it is now.

Anonymous said...

Sean Hannity just announced Gen Vallely will be on his show today to talk about Joe Wilson and his lawyer.

Peter UK said...

Rick,
I hope you don't mind me exerpting your link,but Joe Wilson "The French Connection III" is too delicious to miss.

The FBI just leaked a claim that Rocco did it just for the money. That is very doubtful. The French naturally deny any responsibility, but the forged document was dropped on the public at exactly the time that Dominique de Villepin, then Foreign Minister, was in New York trying to make Colin Powell believe that France was prepared to help overthrow Saddam. The French forgery was a stink bomb, designed to be exposed in public as soon as Colin Powell publicly accepted it.

At the very same time the Niger forgery showed up, France’s Foreign Minister, Dominique de Villepin, was sand bagging Secretary Powell at the UN by pretending to support American efforts against Saddam – even as he got ready to pull out the rug in a surprise press conference."

Which bears out what I was saying to mookg8

terrye said...

mark:

Thanks to people like you I left the Democratic party. Thanks to the fact that people like me left the Democratic Party and voted for Bush, he is now the President of the United States.

Way to go buddy boy.

I think the question is if the CIA was concerned enough about this to make a referral to the DoJ, why didn't they kill the damn story in the first place?

And why does Mr. Wilson get to run around telling one story and then another and another and the Bush bashers pretend not to notice what a lying loon blowing Joe really is?

As for your remarks about Iraq, well that is just stupid. Really. Saddam earned the name the Butcher of Baghdad because of his treatment of his own people...to say they were better off with him around just tells us what a fool you are.

Truly.

In fact the Iraqi people are by and large optimistic about their future which is evidenced by their willingness to create a new government for themselves and their attempts to build a new country. As if you gave a damn about the Iraqi people. Saddam could wipe of them off the face of the planet without so much as a kiss my behind from the entire Kos crew.

I tell you what, Saddam is still alive. Why don't you lobby for his return to power?

Why don't you take your ass over to Iraq and ask people [who don't happen to be former Baathists] how they feel about Saddam running things again?

Go ahead big man, be my guest. Just jump right in there. You might even mention that you think it would be a good deal if he was back in town running things.

Unless of course you are just a chicken commenter.

ex-democrat said...

thanks guys - and don't worry, that ship has long sailed.
however, i'm still trying to imagine what kind of man gets up in the morning, surveys our beautiful but troubled planet, and decides to invest his limited time in, of all things, something called 'Operation Yellow Elephant,' - a project designed to persecute young college republicans based upon a fatuous and indeed imbecilic philosophy that citizens not engaged in active combat service may not be heard to support our country's military actions.
fact is, indeed, stranger than fiction.

ex-democrat said...

wounded kos kid whining about 'insults' from 'the VRWC' in 3...2...1..

(btw, terrye, scroll down here for some nice pics of iraqis mourning the loss of their fearless leader: http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/)

Peter UK said...

Ex-democrat
"what kind of man gets up in the morning, surveys our beautiful but troubled planet, and decides to invest his limited time in, of all things, something called 'Operation Yellow Elephant,"

A kid that represents "Operation Yellow Streak" .

ex-democrat said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ex-democrat said...

there's a scene in a 70's movie called "Car Wash" where a flamboyantly gay character (played by Huggy Bear) snaps at a passing bigot: "Honey, I'm more man than you'll ever be and more woman than you'll ever get!"
So, on that note, here's a man who's more of a Lefty than marky-mark could ever hope of being putting him and his ilk in their rightful place: http://www.slate.com/?id=2073772.

Knucklehead said...

ex-dem,

...a project designed to persecute young college republicans based upon a fatuous and indeed imbecilic philosophy that citizens not engaged in active combat service may not be heard to support our country's military actions.

This is a standard part of the marxists' fare. If you aren't a woman you have no right to an opinion about womens issues. If your not black, no opinion allowed on black issues. Not gay... and so on.

Chop everything into interests group - divide and conquer. Fortunately it seems to be failing.

markg8 said...

Gettin a bit tetchy aren't ya folks? The truth hurts and to have to hear it here of all places? Well I guess this is a refuge where you can usually go to share your theories about the msm and all the other quislings and appeasers who don't agree that we're winning the war, or convince yourselves the Iraqis are grateful and Joe Wilson is a lying doodyhead. Can't spout off about that stuff around the water cooler anymore without getting dirty looks, can you? Kind of sad but I understand.

I'm a member of Operation Yellow Elephant for two reasons. Recruiting is down. Army Recruiting Command just had it's worst year since 1979. We're losing a lot of young officers and noncoms who had planned to be lifers but are quitting with 10 or more years to go to retirement. Right now most troops in Iraq are on their third deployment. Divorce is up amongst these folks 70%. The Army brags about their reenlistment rates. They don't tell you they offer large bonuses and tell soldiers to take them and stay in or don't and get stoplossed anyway.

To lessen their load we try to convince College Republicans and the YAF, the kids who want to grow up to to be the next Karl Roves, Grover Norquists, and Lee Atwaters to join the US Army and help the President they so ardently support by fighting his war. And yes the last I saw the majority of the officer corps (though enlisted rank numbers are more even) are Republicans. I suspect even that percentage is dropping.

To solve the recruiting problem DOD is throwing money at it, upping the recruitment budget by $200 million and developing their fancy new ad campaign. You've seen the ads on TV, "Help them find their strength" starring young men of little means. I hear they're airing a lot on BET, Telemundo, and CMT I think it is.

This frankly is a waste of taxpayer dollars. It's costing us $237,000 per new enlistee in recruiter salaries, ads, follow up, etc. That's crazy. My way's better.

You're right, Kos kids aren't likely to sign up. Neither are black or Hispanic kids who overwhelmingly vote Democratic. They ought to be spending that money targetting the true believers, the kids who want to grow up to have Republican political careers. Bush has never asked anyone but our soldiers to sacrifice anything to win his war. Never before in history has any leader cut taxes during wartime. He hasn't raised CAFE standards to wean us off foreign oil or even made a recruiting speech. I think it's important that young Republicans learn the lessons of responsibility and sacrifice that their elders so obviously didn't. Maybe then they won't think purple heart bandaids are a hilarious campaign prank. And maybe, just maybe if one of them becomes president and has to take the nation to war some day he won't repeat stupid mistakes like declaring mission accomplished at the beginning of insurgency.

terrye said...

Mark:

I am not touchy my sweet...I am disgusted with your kind.

I got through the first paragraph of your post and said to hell with it. If you want us to read your crap edit it.

As for operation dumbass or whatever you got going...the Constitution of the United States makes it plain that our military will be controlled by the civilian government. That is how a draft dodger like Bill Clinton can become commander in chief. If you have a problem with that then I suggest you and your pals take a civics course.

BTW I have relatives who are fighting this war and nobody dragged them off the back porch, drugged them and sent them to Iraq.

They volunteered and no doubt they would think you were a real winner.

Peter UK said...

"I'm a member of Operation Yellow Elephant for two reasons. Recruiting is down. Army Recruiting Command just had it's worst year since 1979. We're losing a lot of young officers and noncoms who had planned to be lifers but are quitting with 10 or more years to go to retirement"

No you are not,you are a just another standard issue leftist,who cannot bear the fact that the Party he hides inside is out of power.

If you were really concerned you would join up yourself....but wait you don't believe in war....well why are you trying t raise recruitment?

The sad part is that you think that the bletherings of an imbecile like yourself is in anyway persuasive.

We have seen the talking points regurgitated ad nauseum for two years,in which time Iraq has written a constition,held elections,the Iraqi Army is taking on more responsibilities.
Losing...this is always a giveaway, this is the egocentric heart of leftism,,We were right,we were right! You would happily see troops return vanquished to have your point of view vindicated.
The infantilism of your wing of politic is what has driven decent former Democrats away,resulting in the Democrats losing the last two elections.
I don't know if you are a kossack,a servant of Soros,a Deaniac,an anti-war warrior,undercover Rovian,but well done! You have kept the left out of office for two terms.
The Republicans should give you a medal.

Peter UK said...

TOBIAS NAEGELE: Hispanics about the same number. But what's different there is that the Hispanics are more likely to be in combat jobs. They're more likely to take a combat job, and more likely to be in the Marine Corps. So they, as a proportion of the service, are greater than their numbers. About 9 percent of the military services are Marines, but about 11 percent, 10 percent or 11 percent are the casualties for Marines.
So the Hispanics are no Kossack pussies then.
Neither are the blacks who make up 17% of the armed forces..

mookg8 aren't you ashamed being a racist and letting these ethnic minorities fight for you?

One small word of warning,this isn't Vietnam where you can sit back and jeer at the returning troops,they are better educated,smarter and tougher than you,this time they know what you have been up to behind their backs,this time they will be running things.Perhaps many will be Democrats.
Bet that puts a frisson down your dainty spine.

markg8 said...

Here's a clue for ya folks, a rule of thumb that you ought to really think about.

We all know Halliburton has the privatized support contract for the US military. If you can't hire any of the people you're supposedly liberating - in a country with 50% unemployment mind you - to do this work and have to pay Jordanian conmen to bait and switch Nepalese kids who think they're getting jobs in 5 star hotels in Kuwait City or Amman into the warzone instead, you're not really liberating anybody and you're sure as hell not winning the hearts and minds you need to defeat an insurgency.

markg8 said...

Hey Peter I can make up moronic plays on your name too. But why bother?

You seem to have a gaping hole in your logic as well as your conscience. You should have that looked at. You should be ashamed for letting anyone let alone these ethnic minorities fight for you. Get it straight, I'm trying to get them all home.

Peter UK said...

Mark Garrity,
Yes I shouldn't mock the afflicted.
Here's a site that might interest you
another esatz peacenic
Amazing that to make an argument you will denigrate their service,even to the extent of airbrushing them out of history.
But then you were always only ever a troll.

Peter UK said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Peter UK said...

But of course there are your fans to consider

terrye said...

If you include recruiting for Navy, Air Force and Marines overall numbers are high. Reenlistment is the highest ever. The Army is the only branch down and that is partly because the government is trying to raise troop numbers not just maintain numbers.

As for Halliburton, this is pure paranoia talking. Halliburton has been a major defence contractor for years. In fact in my home town of Duncan Ok it is the major employer. When Clinton was president they got contracts in Kosovo and the same contracts were extended for Iraq. If the VP had not been Cheney it would never have even been an issue.

And in the future when someone else is VP it will stop being an issue.

The whole thing is stupid.

vnjagvet said...

The Markster has the scissors and pastepot out. Tough to make those arguments responsive to real writers who are not ideologues and tied to one point of view.

You're toying with him Peter. He hasn't laid a glove on ya.

When Mark argues that the Iraqis were better off under the Hussein regime, it is tough to take him seriously. True troll material all right.

Peter UK said...

Vnjagvet
Markg8 = Mark Garrity = Swopa = Needlenose = repetitive behaviour syndrome = what's that on your shoes,don't tread it into the carpet?

markg8 said...

You're making me blush Peter. I like the comparison to Needlenose a lot but I'm not one of their writers. I'm also not this other Mark fella but he seems like a nice guy too.

And yes terrye if you add in the Navy, AF, and Marines the recruiting rates are high. But they're not doing most of the fighting and dying in Iraq. The US Army and it's Reserve and Guard components are in real trouble. Anybody who doesn't acknowledge that fact isn't supporting the troops. Those soldiers are stretched to their limits and admit it, it's not cost effective to recruit Democratic demographics to bolster their ranks.
Go to the College Republicans' website. There's all kinds of job openings and internships available at the Heritage Foundation and AEI there. But not one GoArmy.com link. Or any military recruiting link for that matter. Not one.

Karl Rove is a genius at targeted marketing. The President ought to get him out of the White House where's he drawing so much heat and send him over to DOD to help them with the problem. He knows exactly where the war supporters are. It's been a long time since 9/11. Not enough Republicans are preparing for a war these days that Condi Rice now calls a "generational commitment" to Iraq. You wanna see the dream of a prosperous democratic Iraq allied with the US come true? Then back the President's words with deeds. Nobody else is going to do it for you. Certainly not Democrats who don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth these days.

Peter UK said...

The fallacy is of course the need for more troops in Iraq,in fact the military are drawing down troops.
The real shame is of course that young Democrats will not serve their country,what kind of example is that?
OK for ethnic Dems to go but not precious little creatures like mooky.
What the DOD should do is provide a pick and mix menu for them so that they can state where when and when they will fight.
Go on Mooky stand up and be a man,set an example,after all a fine figure of a thing like you should lead not push.You wouldn't want us to mistake principles for cowardice now would you.

markg8 said...

Peter this young Democrat is 49 years old. I registered for the draft in 1974 when I turned 18. As usual you're wrong. But what about you? Going by the juveniule insults in your posts you must be of military age. How old are you anyway?

Peter UK said...

"This young Democrat is 49 years old. I registered for the draft in 1974 when I turned 18."

Did you serve?

Knucklehead said...

Rick,

This thread has probably gone stale, and somebody else may have pointed to this already, or perhaps you are already aware of it, but I just found How 'Bout Some French Cream on the Yellowcake.